I’m thinking about how much this shift is still patriarchy at work. Reminds me of the many lessons in church about not gossiping, to “not speak ill of the Lord’s anointed”—aka men, and the constant chiding lessons urging women to “focus on the good” with their spouses. Women are sold these platitudes because it makes women look whiny, catty, and ungrateful, but really it’s to not embarrass the men, and women, for tolerating such a sexist, unequal system.
See also the shitty media men list. An online warning sheet for women in media about how to avoid. Not intended for publication. Private warnings. Yet from the reactions in several article, you'd have thought they were demanding the men be fired, then publicly horsewhipped.
I love this interpretation so much. I just published a piece this week of how women have been taught to swallow the stories of their mistreatment, particularly in cases of divorce, especially if the man is the father of their children. But then reflect on what kind of damage it does to the women to have to hold that in. Of course it was prompted by Lily Allen’s album but also the reckoning I have been having in my own life of how much I am afraid to share. This piece is so good. Thank you.
I went and read your piece and followed you straight away. Thank you. If I could go back in time, I’d bring it to 2016 divorcing me and tell her it’s OK to speak up. Instead, here in 2025, I’ll send 2016 me all the love and compassion in my heart, and keep speaking now.
Thanks Celeste. I’m not sure I track the article correctly. But here you go.
I was shocked to read that women are waiting for a boyfriend to propose!? I’m 64 and never understood that dynamic even as a 20 something. (It’s an imbalance of a power) Patriarchy is alive and well but I have choices that I can make. I’ve learned not to give away my power. I’ve also learned, “I” teach people how to treat me. If I keep accepting unacceptable behavior from a person I’m telling them that is ok. It was a hard lesson learn my first marriage. I tried to make him something he was not. I can’t change the culture of patriarchy but I can change how I show up in relationships. I chose to marry my first husband knowing that he was a jerk but I was in denial. (Replicating what I saw in my parents marriage). For me I chose someone who treated me badly because I had poor self esteem.
It was after much therapy, and support groups AND working on myself that I finally found I deserved loving kindness.
I have a close friend who used to tell me during my post divorce days to pull up my “big girl pants” buck up and take charge of your life. Stop playing the victim.
I can’t eradicate patriarchy but I can choose how to show up for me. 🥰
I highly recommend Amy mcphie allebest’s podcast series ‘breaking down the patriarchy’. It is an excellent study of this system and how throughout the ages women have been writing excellent arguments in favor of dismantling it. For me, doing this book study has been transformative. Women’s writings dating back to the 1400’s make the same arguments we are making today
thoroughly informative and fft ( food for thought). i’ve shared life with my daughter on almost every level, and i use almost with a dose of humility because it’s safer. we have had dialogue on just about all of “it”- life. romantic love is quite a navigation and time has not made it easier, in fact more stimuli means a more complex journey, but it is the love that allows us to evolve. with zero intention of selling anything, i include that dialogue in the writing i plan to share in the near future. to this day, as a matter of fact yesterday we exchanged thoughts on her journey with “love”.
thank you for the effort to set down your thoughts.
ps: is it irony that the internet, which as you suggest changes the game, was invented by..men. military men at that (it was not al gore :)
yes i’ve read that a while back; and mike nesmiths mother invented white out…im assuming this isn’t tit 4 tat but just in case my comment was asking if in the context of the article, it wasn’t ironic that military men invented the intranet which became the internet.
Excellent article spotlighting the inequality ingrained in the culture. Women still waiting for men to propose. Why can't women propose the man they liked and if he is not willing to accept the ring, walk away with grace and pride. No wasting time and energy unnecessarily. We are still far away to live in a balanced world. Many girls and women are brainwashed with the idea that marriage and children are the main important status for women while the return on investment on marriage for women is negative and poor quality of life in most cases. We need to turn the table.
Love this article and perspective! As a person who’s not on social media, I see that embarrassment trickling a little into real-life friendships, where girls don’t want to talk about their relationships if we’re in a group. It’s good to not always be talking about men, but we still want to hear what’s going on with you and support you as a group.
Also, at my high school where I graduated in 2017, girl groups at prom were in! It was a large school without one singular popular group, so maybe that influenced our dynamics. Still, it was seen as unnecessary to go to prom with some guy if you didn’t have a boyfriend or almost relationship. I’d be sad if that has swung the other way so quickly.
Yes, you hit exactly what was rubbing me the wrong way about this take! I find it interesting that a lot of the YouTube content creators I follow in this space (e.g. Lisa/YV Edit, Mel Hamlett, Therese, Burb N Bougie. Sovereign) who do a great job of exposing patriarchy and women's stories are also married themselves, despite advocating against dating, letting the birth rate drop, etc. Its like their being married gives them more credence and status (based on their followers count, I'm not blaming them per se). I'd love to follow actual single creators (wish they would recommend some).
It was really eye-opening to me to realize that the only benefit I had ever received from being in a relationship with a man was an increase in my social status...among other women! My grandmother always asked "Who has a boyfriend" of all the girl cousins at Thanksgiving. My mom only wants to talk to me about who got engaged, married, is having a baby (with their husband). I should just make up a boyfriend at this point. Thanksgiving will be more pleasant, and people might actually ask me how I'm doing.
It’s easy for me to be brave on your behalf, but if someone at Thanksgiving asks whether you have a boyfriend, could you ask them why they ask? Is that the most important thing that could possibly be happening to you, if so?
For what it's worth, Teen Vouge actually does a lot of good journalism. Maybe you didn't read the article you linked about oral sex, because it was actually a very good and inclusive piece about sex ed and had nothing to do with blow job techniques
I’m thinking about how much this shift is still patriarchy at work. Reminds me of the many lessons in church about not gossiping, to “not speak ill of the Lord’s anointed”—aka men, and the constant chiding lessons urging women to “focus on the good” with their spouses. Women are sold these platitudes because it makes women look whiny, catty, and ungrateful, but really it’s to not embarrass the men, and women, for tolerating such a sexist, unequal system.
See also the shitty media men list. An online warning sheet for women in media about how to avoid. Not intended for publication. Private warnings. Yet from the reactions in several article, you'd have thought they were demanding the men be fired, then publicly horsewhipped.
"I’ve learned so much from women exposing the patriarchy in their lives online. I want to keep learning together.
Times are a-changing. Not because patriarchy has gone away, but because we’ve never had such a bright spotlight illuminating patriarchy before.
Let’s not put patriarchy back in the dark."
Amen!!!🙌🏻
I love this interpretation so much. I just published a piece this week of how women have been taught to swallow the stories of their mistreatment, particularly in cases of divorce, especially if the man is the father of their children. But then reflect on what kind of damage it does to the women to have to hold that in. Of course it was prompted by Lily Allen’s album but also the reckoning I have been having in my own life of how much I am afraid to share. This piece is so good. Thank you.
I went and read your piece and followed you straight away. Thank you. If I could go back in time, I’d bring it to 2016 divorcing me and tell her it’s OK to speak up. Instead, here in 2025, I’ll send 2016 me all the love and compassion in my heart, and keep speaking now.
Thank you! I love what you shared. We are only ready when we are ready. Notice how I wrote the post about telling but did no telling 🥰😂
Ah, indeed. The invitation is for whatever is ripe, not everything all at once.
Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. Thank you for validating my life (from a 66 year SINGLE old hag! F*** them! And, I am saying this with a big smile!
This is giving me flashbacks to every Mormon “don’t gossip,” “don’t complain about your husband,” “focus on his good qualities” lesson.
Translation: silence protects the system.
Women telling the truth threatens it.
And that’s exactly why we should keep posting.
Thanks Celeste. I’m not sure I track the article correctly. But here you go.
I was shocked to read that women are waiting for a boyfriend to propose!? I’m 64 and never understood that dynamic even as a 20 something. (It’s an imbalance of a power) Patriarchy is alive and well but I have choices that I can make. I’ve learned not to give away my power. I’ve also learned, “I” teach people how to treat me. If I keep accepting unacceptable behavior from a person I’m telling them that is ok. It was a hard lesson learn my first marriage. I tried to make him something he was not. I can’t change the culture of patriarchy but I can change how I show up in relationships. I chose to marry my first husband knowing that he was a jerk but I was in denial. (Replicating what I saw in my parents marriage). For me I chose someone who treated me badly because I had poor self esteem.
It was after much therapy, and support groups AND working on myself that I finally found I deserved loving kindness.
I have a close friend who used to tell me during my post divorce days to pull up my “big girl pants” buck up and take charge of your life. Stop playing the victim.
I can’t eradicate patriarchy but I can choose how to show up for me. 🥰
I highly recommend Amy mcphie allebest’s podcast series ‘breaking down the patriarchy’. It is an excellent study of this system and how throughout the ages women have been writing excellent arguments in favor of dismantling it. For me, doing this book study has been transformative. Women’s writings dating back to the 1400’s make the same arguments we are making today
I love that podcast! And I think Celeste writes for it sometimes, no?
I did not know that - I’ll keep my eye out as I move through her work. Thank you!
It’s a really good podcast! I think she’s very gentle and so sincere and strong.
thoroughly informative and fft ( food for thought). i’ve shared life with my daughter on almost every level, and i use almost with a dose of humility because it’s safer. we have had dialogue on just about all of “it”- life. romantic love is quite a navigation and time has not made it easier, in fact more stimuli means a more complex journey, but it is the love that allows us to evolve. with zero intention of selling anything, i include that dialogue in the writing i plan to share in the near future. to this day, as a matter of fact yesterday we exchanged thoughts on her journey with “love”.
thank you for the effort to set down your thoughts.
ps: is it irony that the internet, which as you suggest changes the game, was invented by..men. military men at that (it was not al gore :)
Hedy Lamarr was the mother of WiFi.
yes i’ve read that a while back; and mike nesmiths mother invented white out…im assuming this isn’t tit 4 tat but just in case my comment was asking if in the context of the article, it wasn’t ironic that military men invented the intranet which became the internet.
it’s irony no?
it’s not a heady query.
Excellent article spotlighting the inequality ingrained in the culture. Women still waiting for men to propose. Why can't women propose the man they liked and if he is not willing to accept the ring, walk away with grace and pride. No wasting time and energy unnecessarily. We are still far away to live in a balanced world. Many girls and women are brainwashed with the idea that marriage and children are the main important status for women while the return on investment on marriage for women is negative and poor quality of life in most cases. We need to turn the table.
Love this article and perspective! As a person who’s not on social media, I see that embarrassment trickling a little into real-life friendships, where girls don’t want to talk about their relationships if we’re in a group. It’s good to not always be talking about men, but we still want to hear what’s going on with you and support you as a group.
Also, at my high school where I graduated in 2017, girl groups at prom were in! It was a large school without one singular popular group, so maybe that influenced our dynamics. Still, it was seen as unnecessary to go to prom with some guy if you didn’t have a boyfriend or almost relationship. I’d be sad if that has swung the other way so quickly.
Yes, you hit exactly what was rubbing me the wrong way about this take! I find it interesting that a lot of the YouTube content creators I follow in this space (e.g. Lisa/YV Edit, Mel Hamlett, Therese, Burb N Bougie. Sovereign) who do a great job of exposing patriarchy and women's stories are also married themselves, despite advocating against dating, letting the birth rate drop, etc. Its like their being married gives them more credence and status (based on their followers count, I'm not blaming them per se). I'd love to follow actual single creators (wish they would recommend some).
I've noticed this too! Perhaps they feel more empowered to call it out, a though it doesn't apply to them?
Excellent, as usual. Thanks Celeste!
The most thought-out analysis of the Vogue article I've read, love it!!! 🙌
It was really eye-opening to me to realize that the only benefit I had ever received from being in a relationship with a man was an increase in my social status...among other women! My grandmother always asked "Who has a boyfriend" of all the girl cousins at Thanksgiving. My mom only wants to talk to me about who got engaged, married, is having a baby (with their husband). I should just make up a boyfriend at this point. Thanksgiving will be more pleasant, and people might actually ask me how I'm doing.
It’s easy for me to be brave on your behalf, but if someone at Thanksgiving asks whether you have a boyfriend, could you ask them why they ask? Is that the most important thing that could possibly be happening to you, if so?
Exellent article. Thank you!!!
For what it's worth, Teen Vouge actually does a lot of good journalism. Maybe you didn't read the article you linked about oral sex, because it was actually a very good and inclusive piece about sex ed and had nothing to do with blow job techniques