Amber Heard, Blake Lively and the deep dive you've been looking for on what happens when astroturfing meets patriarchy. And how exactly we keep falling for it.
I remember watching the Amber heard Johnny Depp trials. Just a little bit I couldn’t stomach very much but every time I heard Johnny Depp talking I was like why do people think he’s so innocent. He was describing his own behavior and it was heinous and when he would describe what was happening, I was like it’s so clear like from his own mouth that he was totally messed up on drugs that the house was disgusting that there was so much going wrong in that relationship that everything that Amber was accused of doing seemed like it was a understandable response to a horrific situation with him.
I kept looking around me and being like is nobody listening to the actual words that he is saying? Because his words do not exonerate him. It’s the same feeling I have when I listen to Donald Trump. Are people hearing the words that he is saying?
I completely agree. I’ve had the misfortune to be on the receiving end of verbal abuse by men in my family with substance abuse issues. In my experience, they release a torrent of hatefulness under the influence and have absolutely no memory of it later. Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde behavior. I can’t watch Depp in anything now, he’s just so sickening to me.
It astounds me how I see him everywhere, promoting cologne, and luxury products and movies. I literally do not understand it. And not even based on what Amber heard said, but based on the things that he said about himself
It's mind boggling, isn't it? But I think the Overton Window has shifted so much in terms of what can come out of man's mouth (and the actions he can take) without consequences that people largely don't even blink anymore. It's terrifying.
I think one of the benefits of having deconstructed something major (like a religion) is that when people tell you:
“I know it’s hard to believe, but… there’s actually a whole movement going on that’s designed to appeal at a large scale, and is causing people to act against their said values”
You can more readily say, “yeah, that checks out.”
I love your continued exploration of that in terms of the patriarchy. Thanks for sharing it with us!
Ronan Farrow's "Catch and Kill" mentions one of Weinstein's victims getting him on tape admitting to having raped her. Weinstein set the tabloids on her and they were suddenly full of stories about his victim being a drug-addicted, hard-partying, nymphomaniac. OBVIOUSLY not a sympathetic victim. Coupled with a donation to the DA, that got the story killed.
it's always so bonkers how 'being a nymphomaniac' is still a 'thing' when a woman has been raped. also one could be extremely keen on a lot of sex and STILL be raped. it feels like the 'consent' idea is always missing, don't it.
It doesn't even need nymphonia — just being sexually active is enough to make a woman's rape claims dubious to a lot of people. To paraphrase the Southern humorist Lewis Grizzard, people have a hard time grasping that even if a woman went to a bar, looking to get laid, this does not mean she loses her right to say no.
Oh my goddess. Yup. Yup yup yup. That’s all I can say. One of the most devastating thing about these times is realizing what a sham so much of women’s supposed newfound equality really is. Yet, one of the greatest things is our relentless refusal to be quiet about it, even when it brings a shitstorm to our door. So thank you!!
Thank you. This is essential reading and so helpful as I could sense that there was something really off about the vitriol against Lively. And I did not know the depths to which Depps team attacked Heard. I was even swayed by the lies and I don’t usually follow these celebrity trials.
I guess I'm lucky that I got to deal with so many narcissists up close and seem to have developed a precise radar.
I suppose the mobs don't even bother to consider the facts.
Even more worrying is the fact that this 'narrative doctoring' goes on in all areas of the world. It didn't stop in wartime Germany. The world is still the same - the masses are told what to believe and they believe it. You must have done lots of individuation work to be immune to it.
I grew up with an abusive father in a high control religion…which just means I have a very contrarian mind that detects bullshit pretty easily. I wasn’t really following the amber heard/johnny Depp thing but suddenly even at work (I work in an industry that’s 95% women) everyone was talking about it and every person was against Amber. That immediately got my hackles up because these women were saying truly misogynistic things. I was the only person that spoke out and defended her. Then Déjà vu with freaking Blake all over again.
Thank you for writing this article! Very important article and I appreciate the article you linked as well. Unfortunately what I have found from a lot of people is once people are locked into an opinion, they don’t tend to change their minds about that opinion even when presented with facts. Makes this work very hard & exhausting.
Hard and exhausting for sure. And I'm so sorry you had to grow up with that, Jesse. It's truly head spinning how the narratives can be built so quickly and brutally around women.
Thank you for not stopping at identifying the problem! So often I read or hear what sound like legitimate complaints but I'm left hanging (and depressed). Thank you for putting in the time and effort to find and describe specific solutions. ❤️
I've been sitting with this since I first read yesterday. I feel sick. By the time Blake/Baldoni came along I understood enough not to trust what I was hearing. But that's about all I knew. I watched and waited. And it was a loooong time before any understanding came along. And you've just illustrated why. The steaming pile of trash behind the velvet curtain. We walk around the world skimming headlines, shouting opinions, debating points, marking ballots, thinking we have a clue what’s going on. I know I have been. Opinions I thought were my own. Beliefs. Convictions. Men I championed. Who could do no wrong. I was always ready with an excuse for them. The astroturfing worked on me! And my gut feels so heavy with it. Thank you for once again helping open my eyes that I might have knowledge.
Change my mind: A weekly dose of MB is the most effective medicine on the market for the disease of internalized patriarchy.
Your writing is so spot on, and I greatly admire the in-depth research you do. I didn’t follow these stories, and I have heard bots are significantly messing with what we see on line. But this article was truly eye-opening. Well, sort of. I still recognize even in myself the tendency to believe men over women (I wish it wasn’t true). I am working on seeing the world around me more clearly and learning how to resist patriarchy on a daily basis. Your articles are a huge help to me in that process. Thank you!
I remember watching the Amber heard Johnny Depp trials. Just a little bit I couldn’t stomach very much but every time I heard Johnny Depp talking I was like why do people think he’s so innocent. He was describing his own behavior and it was heinous and when he would describe what was happening, I was like it’s so clear like from his own mouth that he was totally messed up on drugs that the house was disgusting that there was so much going wrong in that relationship that everything that Amber was accused of doing seemed like it was a understandable response to a horrific situation with him.
I kept looking around me and being like is nobody listening to the actual words that he is saying? Because his words do not exonerate him. It’s the same feeling I have when I listen to Donald Trump. Are people hearing the words that he is saying?
I completely agree. I’ve had the misfortune to be on the receiving end of verbal abuse by men in my family with substance abuse issues. In my experience, they release a torrent of hatefulness under the influence and have absolutely no memory of it later. Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde behavior. I can’t watch Depp in anything now, he’s just so sickening to me.
It astounds me how I see him everywhere, promoting cologne, and luxury products and movies. I literally do not understand it. And not even based on what Amber heard said, but based on the things that he said about himself
It’s not really he said she said when he’s saying it himself
Exactly! Everything he said himself made it so clear what kind of person he is. I don’t understand why anyone can overlook that.
It's mind boggling, isn't it? But I think the Overton Window has shifted so much in terms of what can come out of man's mouth (and the actions he can take) without consequences that people largely don't even blink anymore. It's terrifying.
That is so horrifyingly true
💯
Patriarchy is so mainstream that we don't see how deeply immersed we are in it.
Thank you for writing this and exposing the DARVO tactics
Thank youuuu. I love your writing.
I think one of the benefits of having deconstructed something major (like a religion) is that when people tell you:
“I know it’s hard to believe, but… there’s actually a whole movement going on that’s designed to appeal at a large scale, and is causing people to act against their said values”
You can more readily say, “yeah, that checks out.”
I love your continued exploration of that in terms of the patriarchy. Thanks for sharing it with us!
Ronan Farrow's "Catch and Kill" mentions one of Weinstein's victims getting him on tape admitting to having raped her. Weinstein set the tabloids on her and they were suddenly full of stories about his victim being a drug-addicted, hard-partying, nymphomaniac. OBVIOUSLY not a sympathetic victim. Coupled with a donation to the DA, that got the story killed.
Same hell, just more sophisticated tactics now.
it's always so bonkers how 'being a nymphomaniac' is still a 'thing' when a woman has been raped. also one could be extremely keen on a lot of sex and STILL be raped. it feels like the 'consent' idea is always missing, don't it.
It doesn't even need nymphonia — just being sexually active is enough to make a woman's rape claims dubious to a lot of people. To paraphrase the Southern humorist Lewis Grizzard, people have a hard time grasping that even if a woman went to a bar, looking to get laid, this does not mean she loses her right to say no.
sadly so true.
My head is spinning at the depth and breadth of these examples of hatred against women. Thank you for writing this.
This was really great, thanks for doing the work and putting it out in the world
Oh my goddess. Yup. Yup yup yup. That’s all I can say. One of the most devastating thing about these times is realizing what a sham so much of women’s supposed newfound equality really is. Yet, one of the greatest things is our relentless refusal to be quiet about it, even when it brings a shitstorm to our door. So thank you!!
Thank you. This is essential reading and so helpful as I could sense that there was something really off about the vitriol against Lively. And I did not know the depths to which Depps team attacked Heard. I was even swayed by the lies and I don’t usually follow these celebrity trials.
I guess I'm lucky that I got to deal with so many narcissists up close and seem to have developed a precise radar.
I suppose the mobs don't even bother to consider the facts.
Even more worrying is the fact that this 'narrative doctoring' goes on in all areas of the world. It didn't stop in wartime Germany. The world is still the same - the masses are told what to believe and they believe it. You must have done lots of individuation work to be immune to it.
I grew up with an abusive father in a high control religion…which just means I have a very contrarian mind that detects bullshit pretty easily. I wasn’t really following the amber heard/johnny Depp thing but suddenly even at work (I work in an industry that’s 95% women) everyone was talking about it and every person was against Amber. That immediately got my hackles up because these women were saying truly misogynistic things. I was the only person that spoke out and defended her. Then Déjà vu with freaking Blake all over again.
Thank you for writing this article! Very important article and I appreciate the article you linked as well. Unfortunately what I have found from a lot of people is once people are locked into an opinion, they don’t tend to change their minds about that opinion even when presented with facts. Makes this work very hard & exhausting.
Hard and exhausting for sure. And I'm so sorry you had to grow up with that, Jesse. It's truly head spinning how the narratives can be built so quickly and brutally around women.
Thank you for not stopping at identifying the problem! So often I read or hear what sound like legitimate complaints but I'm left hanging (and depressed). Thank you for putting in the time and effort to find and describe specific solutions. ❤️
I've been sitting with this since I first read yesterday. I feel sick. By the time Blake/Baldoni came along I understood enough not to trust what I was hearing. But that's about all I knew. I watched and waited. And it was a loooong time before any understanding came along. And you've just illustrated why. The steaming pile of trash behind the velvet curtain. We walk around the world skimming headlines, shouting opinions, debating points, marking ballots, thinking we have a clue what’s going on. I know I have been. Opinions I thought were my own. Beliefs. Convictions. Men I championed. Who could do no wrong. I was always ready with an excuse for them. The astroturfing worked on me! And my gut feels so heavy with it. Thank you for once again helping open my eyes that I might have knowledge.
Change my mind: A weekly dose of MB is the most effective medicine on the market for the disease of internalized patriarchy.
❤️❤️❤️
excellent piece, as ever. thank you. it's always such a pleasure to read you. energetic and incisive. brilliant.
One of the most important articles I have read on this platform. I will be forwarding this to my pals
Your writing is so spot on, and I greatly admire the in-depth research you do. I didn’t follow these stories, and I have heard bots are significantly messing with what we see on line. But this article was truly eye-opening. Well, sort of. I still recognize even in myself the tendency to believe men over women (I wish it wasn’t true). I am working on seeing the world around me more clearly and learning how to resist patriarchy on a daily basis. Your articles are a huge help to me in that process. Thank you!
This is so well written and clear. Thank you for putting this together…I’m forwarding this to everyone I know.