I remember reading about an initiative where shepherds added a llama to each sheep herd, because unlike with a dog llamas can become part of the herd. But when a canine (iirc feral dogs were more of a problem than wolves) attacked, while sheep panicked and ran, llamas charged. So the dogs learned to avoid the herds with a llama because from their perspective those sheep were vicious.
And when there weren’t dog attacks, the llamas were happy herd members. Eating grass, joining in with sheep play, just being a member of the community.
So if someone’s going “I have the capacity for violence, but I want to live a life based on love”, I’d rather they learn from llamas than sheepdogs.
I knew a family in Montana who had several trained "attack llamas" for this exact purpose. They were also trained to be friendly to family, but not to outsiders. They would stomp an intruding poacher as easily as a wolf or feral dog! I had to stay behind the fence to look at their animals, all because of the llamas!
As a nonviolent man, I often felt out of place when discussing violence with other men. I was never attracted to the glory nor conquest. My growing up religion taught that it was a sacred duty to be the protector. I have since shunned those teachings and happily preparing school lunches, reading bedtime stories for rebel girls, and doing groceries. I enjoy caring for my family, it brings me joy.
I’ve got very wary of shepherding metaphors in general, because when it comes down to it, the shepherd or sheepdog protects the sheep from wolves so that the shepherd (or their employer) gets to eat the sheep instead of the wolves, not for the benefit of the sheep themselves.
My first thought with this metaphor of sheepdog (which I'd never heard before) is how much praise and constant attention and validation they require! And how much energy it takes to manage working dogs. And how destructive they can be if they don't have "a job." So in that way, it kinda fits? 🙃
Lovely article. I agree with everything said. This is one of the stronger negative men’s narratives that turns sweet boys into toxic men. You are not a real man unless you hurt others. Most men can’t measure up, then they go in a dark direction trying to hold themselves up to a fake standard. Well laid out!
I wish to give a little credit to Men in Black. One of the best parts early on is when the main character shoots the little girl during the shooting range scene. That’s definitely a tiny movement in the right direction. Also they are police for the aliens, the vast majority of whom are peaceful. A lot less trope-ish compared to the others. As a boy, I was struck by the fact most of the aliens were good people, very few were bad guys. I would point to The Witcher as further evolution. The “monsters“ are victimized by bad men often. The hero often saves them from evil humans and sometimes has to kill monsters. But he does so with no joy or fanfare. It is not to be celebrated. It’s a tragedy. His adopted daughter is a girl who can take care of herself and is ultimately more powerful than him.
None are perfect I’ll admit. But the more thought provoking, the better the story. They are still men using violence. Assigning the right amount of emotional toll to taking lives makes the difference. And recognizing that how they treat women, their children, and each other the rest of the time is the most important.
Your article gave me a moment of pause. I have sat with this all morning. It is occurring to me the cycle of smallness that women can feel in the world at large. Powerful independent women, feel this in various ways. Whether it is through being diminished in a mainly male corporate environment, or at home and everything in between. Women receive and catch the energy display and comments daily that are a constant reminder to remain smaller. Smart and empowered women must navigate this terrain carefully. This is how our society has operated for centuries now. I see the current process and continued attempts to deconstruct women's rights as proof of this. Less options, less power, more fear. Then we think we need a sheepdog to protect us from the wolf. P.S. I loved your list of ways to be a hero and stand as sheep.
Yes- the book “Misogyny The Male Malady” by David Gilmore proposes that women have less need for men than men have for women so patriarchy rose up as a way to make men necessary- to make women reliant on a man to eat and have shelter and love safely. None of this is innate but produced.
Yesterday I listened to Bill Gates on the Jay Shetty podcast, and as I was reading this I thought about him and other billionaires who make insane sums of money then don their philanthropist capes...
Oh wow, Kelly - thank you for calling this out, what a piece, and YES. That. Not dissimilar in message to The Star Market by Marie Howe. The Ladies from the Ladies Betterment League (insert hand palm emoji). Thank you for bringing the point I was making down to the everyday. It's not just about Bill Gates, is it?
I think in some ways the Bill Gates of the world are uniquely problematic, but in other ways I think we're all susceptible to the problematic, dominant cultural narratives they subscribe to. I've been reading adrienne marie brown's book Emergent Strategy, and it's been making me think through how to increase solidarity and interdependence with people in different life situations than me. The Bill Gates of the world don't want us realizing how much we have in common with each other because the second we realize that and stop trying to decide who is better than who, we're going to go after the ultra wealthy together.
Why is it wholly unsurprising that you are reading amb? I loved both Emergence Strategy and Pleasure Activism, and following her realtime on IG and her pod...i'm so drawn to black women generally...Audre Lorde, bell hooks, Sonya Renee Taylor...they are speaking directly to me as I work through understanding the levels of domestication/ separation have been subjected to...(insert melting face emoji). There is so much I can say about this, and it's been an increasingly dominant theme in both my life and writing...yes to increasing solidarity and interdependence - I think this is precisely what is being called for right now.
I read an article a while back that talked about a study involving the emotional lives of sheep, and it turns out they are quite intelligent and emotionally complex animals; according to the researchers, “Sheep have extremely sophisticated face recognition abilities on a par with humans. They can interpret emotions on the faces of other sheep and can remember sheep faces over years.” They also said, “[…]characterizations of them [sheep] as dull-minded and lacking uniqueness and independence in their personality and desires is completely wrong. In fact, nothing could be further from the truth.”
I once had my butt grabbed in line at a theme park while standing with my boyfriend, who did not see. The mental dilemma on whether to say something and possibly be in the middle of a violent confrontation because my boyfriend might react “heroically” or to stay silent to prevent more violence was so troubling. I stayed silent. I know from talking to other women that sometimes we suck up the abuse because we’re afraid of how the men around us will react trying to make it right when they find out. I want safety and justice, but not at the expense of further violence.
Great article, Celeste. Of course the guy in the NYT story has a bible is his go bag. I would venture to guess, and this is purely speculation on my part, I have no data to support it, that most of the sheepdogs would consider themselves righteous people and use religion to justify their violence. Gun in one hand and bible in the other hand. That makes for an extremely dangerous combination.
An interesting thing about the sheep, wolf, and sheepdog analogy it that while the wolf and sheepdog are evolutionarily different, they do share a lot of the same DNA (some studies put it as high as 98-99%). In reality, the sheepdog is a wolf in sheepdog's clothing. The men who see themselves as heroes and protectors that will use violence are really nothing more than violent men looking for a reason to be violent.
And going along with the animal analogies, according the book Animal Farm, all the dogs are controlled by the pigs...
I find the whole bible thing bizzare. What being commits homocide and genocide out of love? Makes me think of the following quote from George Carlin:
"Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you..."
Wow you hit the nail on the head with this. Turning friends, family, and neighbors into "enemies" so he'll have someone to "protect" you against seems to also be a favorite male pastime.
I remember reading about an initiative where shepherds added a llama to each sheep herd, because unlike with a dog llamas can become part of the herd. But when a canine (iirc feral dogs were more of a problem than wolves) attacked, while sheep panicked and ran, llamas charged. So the dogs learned to avoid the herds with a llama because from their perspective those sheep were vicious.
And when there weren’t dog attacks, the llamas were happy herd members. Eating grass, joining in with sheep play, just being a member of the community.
So if someone’s going “I have the capacity for violence, but I want to live a life based on love”, I’d rather they learn from llamas than sheepdogs.
Love this Leeron! I knew I liked llamas!
What a great point Leron!
Let us now strive for Llamahood.
I knew a family in Montana who had several trained "attack llamas" for this exact purpose. They were also trained to be friendly to family, but not to outsiders. They would stomp an intruding poacher as easily as a wolf or feral dog! I had to stay behind the fence to look at their animals, all because of the llamas!
That's very interesting.
I Love this, and hadn't heard about the practice of using llamas. Thank you!
As a nonviolent man, I often felt out of place when discussing violence with other men. I was never attracted to the glory nor conquest. My growing up religion taught that it was a sacred duty to be the protector. I have since shunned those teachings and happily preparing school lunches, reading bedtime stories for rebel girls, and doing groceries. I enjoy caring for my family, it brings me joy.
I’ve got very wary of shepherding metaphors in general, because when it comes down to it, the shepherd or sheepdog protects the sheep from wolves so that the shepherd (or their employer) gets to eat the sheep instead of the wolves, not for the benefit of the sheep themselves.
Such a great point!! We could really expand this metaphor to include capitalism.
My first thought with this metaphor of sheepdog (which I'd never heard before) is how much praise and constant attention and validation they require! And how much energy it takes to manage working dogs. And how destructive they can be if they don't have "a job." So in that way, it kinda fits? 🙃
Yes! Great pull Jennifer
Just got an Australian Shepherd and this is so true!
Lovely article. I agree with everything said. This is one of the stronger negative men’s narratives that turns sweet boys into toxic men. You are not a real man unless you hurt others. Most men can’t measure up, then they go in a dark direction trying to hold themselves up to a fake standard. Well laid out!
I wish to give a little credit to Men in Black. One of the best parts early on is when the main character shoots the little girl during the shooting range scene. That’s definitely a tiny movement in the right direction. Also they are police for the aliens, the vast majority of whom are peaceful. A lot less trope-ish compared to the others. As a boy, I was struck by the fact most of the aliens were good people, very few were bad guys. I would point to The Witcher as further evolution. The “monsters“ are victimized by bad men often. The hero often saves them from evil humans and sometimes has to kill monsters. But he does so with no joy or fanfare. It is not to be celebrated. It’s a tragedy. His adopted daughter is a girl who can take care of herself and is ultimately more powerful than him.
None are perfect I’ll admit. But the more thought provoking, the better the story. They are still men using violence. Assigning the right amount of emotional toll to taking lives makes the difference. And recognizing that how they treat women, their children, and each other the rest of the time is the most important.
Your article gave me a moment of pause. I have sat with this all morning. It is occurring to me the cycle of smallness that women can feel in the world at large. Powerful independent women, feel this in various ways. Whether it is through being diminished in a mainly male corporate environment, or at home and everything in between. Women receive and catch the energy display and comments daily that are a constant reminder to remain smaller. Smart and empowered women must navigate this terrain carefully. This is how our society has operated for centuries now. I see the current process and continued attempts to deconstruct women's rights as proof of this. Less options, less power, more fear. Then we think we need a sheepdog to protect us from the wolf. P.S. I loved your list of ways to be a hero and stand as sheep.
Yes- the book “Misogyny The Male Malady” by David Gilmore proposes that women have less need for men than men have for women so patriarchy rose up as a way to make men necessary- to make women reliant on a man to eat and have shelter and love safely. None of this is innate but produced.
Thank you for this 🩷
Yesterday I listened to Bill Gates on the Jay Shetty podcast, and as I was reading this I thought about him and other billionaires who make insane sums of money then don their philanthropist capes...
A poetry teacher of mine called philanthropy “money laundering for the wealthy”. Your thoughts reminded me of that.
Your comment makes me think of a poem that always gives me pause (in a good way) called “Lovers of the Poor” by Gwendolyn Brooks.
Oh wow, Kelly - thank you for calling this out, what a piece, and YES. That. Not dissimilar in message to The Star Market by Marie Howe. The Ladies from the Ladies Betterment League (insert hand palm emoji). Thank you for bringing the point I was making down to the everyday. It's not just about Bill Gates, is it?
Also, I haven't read The Star Market, and will definitely check it out!
I think in some ways the Bill Gates of the world are uniquely problematic, but in other ways I think we're all susceptible to the problematic, dominant cultural narratives they subscribe to. I've been reading adrienne marie brown's book Emergent Strategy, and it's been making me think through how to increase solidarity and interdependence with people in different life situations than me. The Bill Gates of the world don't want us realizing how much we have in common with each other because the second we realize that and stop trying to decide who is better than who, we're going to go after the ultra wealthy together.
Why is it wholly unsurprising that you are reading amb? I loved both Emergence Strategy and Pleasure Activism, and following her realtime on IG and her pod...i'm so drawn to black women generally...Audre Lorde, bell hooks, Sonya Renee Taylor...they are speaking directly to me as I work through understanding the levels of domestication/ separation have been subjected to...(insert melting face emoji). There is so much I can say about this, and it's been an increasingly dominant theme in both my life and writing...yes to increasing solidarity and interdependence - I think this is precisely what is being called for right now.
I read an article a while back that talked about a study involving the emotional lives of sheep, and it turns out they are quite intelligent and emotionally complex animals; according to the researchers, “Sheep have extremely sophisticated face recognition abilities on a par with humans. They can interpret emotions on the faces of other sheep and can remember sheep faces over years.” They also said, “[…]characterizations of them [sheep] as dull-minded and lacking uniqueness and independence in their personality and desires is completely wrong. In fact, nothing could be further from the truth.”
Just thought that was interesting!
Perfect tie in- thanks for finding these quotes for us
I once had my butt grabbed in line at a theme park while standing with my boyfriend, who did not see. The mental dilemma on whether to say something and possibly be in the middle of a violent confrontation because my boyfriend might react “heroically” or to stay silent to prevent more violence was so troubling. I stayed silent. I know from talking to other women that sometimes we suck up the abuse because we’re afraid of how the men around us will react trying to make it right when they find out. I want safety and justice, but not at the expense of further violence.
Such a frustrating experience, but such a perfect example of what we're talking about. Thanks Stephanie.
Another female microaggression that we have to endure. How infuriating. I'm enraged on your behalf
Great article, Celeste. Of course the guy in the NYT story has a bible is his go bag. I would venture to guess, and this is purely speculation on my part, I have no data to support it, that most of the sheepdogs would consider themselves righteous people and use religion to justify their violence. Gun in one hand and bible in the other hand. That makes for an extremely dangerous combination.
An interesting thing about the sheep, wolf, and sheepdog analogy it that while the wolf and sheepdog are evolutionarily different, they do share a lot of the same DNA (some studies put it as high as 98-99%). In reality, the sheepdog is a wolf in sheepdog's clothing. The men who see themselves as heroes and protectors that will use violence are really nothing more than violent men looking for a reason to be violent.
And going along with the animal analogies, according the book Animal Farm, all the dogs are controlled by the pigs...
“a sheepdog in wolf’s clothing” what a missed opportunity that was on my part hahaha- great points Steve!
And the Bible! A lot of this violence is love stuff comes from the Bible! Where God commits homocide, genocide out of “love” for his children. Wild.
And yes the pigs- could do another whole post on the invisible hand that benefits while we are busy fighting each other.
I find the whole bible thing bizzare. What being commits homocide and genocide out of love? Makes me think of the following quote from George Carlin:
"Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you..."
this is so good and wise. Thank you x
Wow you hit the nail on the head with this. Turning friends, family, and neighbors into "enemies" so he'll have someone to "protect" you against seems to also be a favorite male pastime.
This is, chefs kiss.
This is so good and needs to be shared. I love be a hero by being a good neighbor, caring for others.
“Sheep cannot tell the difference between a sheepdog and a wolf.” 👏🏻😭🔥🖤
Do the sheepdogs not realize it is the shepherd who controls and directs them? We know what happens when he is the wolf...