Woof. I found myself as a very young mother of 2 girls wondering if this is it. Do I raise my girls to be mothers and that’s all for them and me? Like, do we just hope someone has a son so we can raise someone who will be something more than a mother?
And have you ever felt like motherhood is similar to a MLM? My mother in law waxes poetic about motherhood and homemaking yet I find myself feeling very unsupported by her, almost tricked. Whew, this dumb speech has unleashed a lot of feelings. As always, your writing is its own revelation.
Oof yeah. I think it is so similar to an MLM - so bright and shiny and full of promises on the outside. The shiny veneer covers up its empty, isolating underbelly
Loved your article Celeste. “It’s not fair” and the concept of “chosen” instead of culturally forced motherhood, are seemingly obvious, yet deeply difficult ideas to implement and are desperately needed, especially in the evangelical/mormon/trad-life spheres. Thank you!
Yes while I was writing this I was like “is this so obvious?” It kinda is but boy did no one tell me! Not until I was 4 kids deep I noticed for myself.
I’ve known my entire life I would not be “well-suited” for motherhood. And now at forty am fulfilled in my role as spinster. The truth is, it is not economically viable *for men* to not have wives to provide the free, invisible labor of housewifery. I saw this as a child, watching my mom work at her bread-baking and see the mask slip when her bitterness seeped thru - I judged her then for being mean but grown up me acknowledged the unfairness. Even grandma Nancy, our family’s gold-standard tradwife, took those secrets to her grave: we found in her meticulous records THREE times she admitted herself to psychiatric hospitals and journal entries that captured her depression. What a deception she carried out on her children and grandchildren who would all struggle with their own depression and blame themselves but also what was her alternative?? (Mrs. Friedan also railed against single, unmarried women. I guess we were the delinquents to her but Rebecca Traister’s ‘All The Single Women’ has been my spinster/female delinquent/bachelor lady bible.) I LOVE YOU CELESTE
Oh no Grandma Nancy 😭😭😭😭 Heartbreaking. Do you follow that TikTok trend “Grandma- you little victim!” I watch every one - I can’t believe what our grandmas secretly went through. May our generation do better 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼.
And yeah Friedan was no hero to be sure- she rallied against the queer community, women of color, single women, poor woman- not all that dissimilar to our man Buttlick except she rallied hard for rich white moms.
Wow, Celeste! Thank you for writing this. So many things to unpack. It's not fair. What men have done to women is not fair. The lies, the oppression, the manipulation, etc. is not fair. The brainwashing the church has done to women is not fair. The fact that assholes like Buttkiss exist is not fair. His speech was just disgusting.
I had the Rolling Stones song Mother's Little Helper going through my head the entire time reading this. Its about the rampant valium abuse by homemakers in the 50s and 60s. The media representation of the idealized 1950s household tends to leave that and many other details out. And thanks for another book to add to my reading list. Seems like I always come away with at least one new book to add after reading your articles.
Oh I almost put a section in this essay about Valium! It’s insane how often it was prescribed to moms! Thanks as always for your support and helpful commentary Steve!
Nailed it once again Celeste. I'm one of those single mothers with three children scrambling to make a career after the unravelling of my marriage. How I wish I had taken a vocation more seriously, instead of naively throwing myself into Mormon Wife/Mum life. Really I was doomed from the start, I've learned the hard lessons now and making sure that my children are aware of their choices and understand the impact and complexity of it. Thanks for the article as always.
What do you do for work Trina? I wish I had picked a major that led to an actual job in college (I majored in sociology) but I honestly just never thought I would need one.
I talk about jobs and college and careers with my daughters all the time. No one ever did with me.
Thank you for writing about this. I can’t believe that speech- so much hatred hurled at so many different communities and wtf is he going talking about motherhood and why does he get a platform-
Just a thought to propose. If, by nature, women are less happy when they raise children, how does humanity survive? We all seek the greatest happiness. Without women in marriages, children will not be born. Either you are against marriage or against the continuance of the species.
I think a more plausible solution is that the majority of humans tend towards fulfillment in marriages, contributing to society by giving work and children. A minority are called to primarily spiritually advance the race.
This is the raw idea as I read the first paragraphs of your article. Until you can answer these, there is no point in reading the whole thing.
Message me if this is totally wrong though. I don't know a whole lot.
I don’t think raising children necessitates a less happy life. I think the white, nuclear family living in Suburbia where the woman stays at home and the man goes to work does not set a woman up to thrive. It truly takes a village but our country does not offer any support of care work (paid family leave) and being a homemaker is for many an incredibly isolating, demanding unsupported experience.
2) The modern system which we live in seems to be the problem. Life at home is isolating. Life at work is not. Humans are political animals, ergo the conclusion. However…
The woman is not totally alone. She ought to have friends, and she has her husband.
Isolation is needed for man to flourish, albeit in doses. Reflection, meditation, and prayer are essential for humans to flourish according to their nature.
Society needs to support the experience, and this will alleviate stress from the woman in the home.
I think your article touches on some important points. Women are not cared for these days as well as they should be. To support them is everyone’s duty. We need to start treating women better.
Why do people have to be married to procreate? I don't prayer and I am flourishing just fine. You make a some assertions without evidence just like Harrison Buttwipe.
Thanks for your questions!! There are many reasons for the former. I’ll give you two.
1) “Marriage is a personal union, intended for the whole of life, of husband and wife”. It is a pledge between two persons to raise a family and support each other through good times and bad times. The oath of fidelity strengthens this bond. True, faithful love is giving yourself to another. When a man devotes himself to a woman to the level of bringing life into the world, any action of procreating with another woman would breach the love between them. Marriage serves to deepen and strengthen the love already present among two persons—a pledge of permanence to never flee even in difficult times.
2) Marriage protects the well-being of children. There have been countless studies that point to this fact—I can send them if you would like. The children’s need to know their biological origins are satisfied. The father and mother create a household of nurturing love and encourage personal development for the child. Without marriage, the deeper purpose of reproduction is overlooked. And if people claim they won’t overlook it, why don’t they just marry?
As for prayer, here is my response. Prayer is conversation with God. God created man and loves man unconditionally. God asks that man talk with him each day. Millions of people do this and experience the unbounded love of God. God exists (I’ll explain that as well if you would like). It is evident from revelation that praying each day is essential for human happiness. Even on a not religious level, contemplation is needed for human happiness, as this is what separates us from the animals most of all.
Last point: Please don’t call the Kansas City Chiefs Kicker “Harrison Buttwipe”. Just because you disagree with him does not justify name-calling (which is a very childish device). This is not just about “being nice”. This is about discovering truth and purpose in life, about discoursing with fellow men and women. Your ad hominem attack undermines this process of discourse. I love that you are passionate about your beliefs—but don’t make that your downfall. We must let reason rule the city of our soul.
I hope this reply helps. I apologize for the length, but you proposed very good questions, and I wanted to be thorough but not too exhausting.
I will no longer call him Captain Buttwipe. We need him next year. As far as marriage I am proud to say I can now after so many years of people telling me wrong. And as far as god I have yet to see empirically any evidence for a deity. Thank you for your response.
Nothing can move itself. Only another can move it. This goes to infinity unless there is a first unmoved mover, namely God. This is a boiled down version of St. Thomas Aquinas’ first proof for the existence of God.
Also, do you really think the amazing world around us was created by chance? The complexity? The detail?
Really enjoy your writing. I reserved all the books you mentioned. I have so many questions and wonderings now. Especially about white women vs indigenous women.
In many times in the past, babies would "go to work" with Mom -- strapped to her back or front while Mom worked the fields alongside men, or gathered roots, or worked in a kitchen -- leaving easy access to feed their babies . It wasn't that mothers and babies were separated; it was that they often experienced life side by side. It was aristocrats (throughout the world, not just in Europe) who started to separate women (and men) from their children, hiring out the labor to maids, scholars, etc., freeing their parents to rule and socialize. Of course, others wanted to mimic the ruling class, without always having the means to make it work. So......here we are.
Well done, Celeste! I’ve been both a SAHM and a career professional. Same person, same marriage, but wow what a massive happiness jump when I escaped the domestic gulag! Not to mention financial security, better health, and (also not a surprise) happier kids.
And predictably, the naysayers are out in full force, coming out of the woodwork. Truth-telling articles like this basically chum the waters for a feeding frenzy, lol.
Ha thanks!! I had to block like 20 comments- I’m fine with people disagreeing with me or bringing up counter points - kept those ones up- - I just blocked the comments attacking me and other commenters. It’s been a weird week!
There is so many more factors involved in “ happiness” and there are so many more societal and cultural changes that have led to women not being able to” happy” at home caring for their husbands and families. Honestly think by now we could see all that and quit dragging around a dead idea. No one is going to be “ happy” unless they feel loved by their Creator and feel like they are loving Him back period. How each of us work that out as individuals is up to us but we certainly don’t need, none of us make or female or whatever, none of us need someone else using us or feeding us a line of BS. Thank you I know you did some research and meant well I think but that is my comment I think we might just be better off lightening up a little stop analyzing our every feeling after all feelings come and go be committed to being your best self and give others the space to be there’s. Peace
Maybe it's not the homemaking and kids as such that are making you guys miserable - maybe it's your location?
"A recent analysis of data from 22 countries by sociologist Jennifer Glass and colleagues puts American results in perspective.1 Nowhere is the parental happiness gap larger than in the United States. Indeed, American parents are notably less happy here than are their Anglophone relatives in England and Australia. In some countries, most notably Norway and Hungary, parents are actually happier than non-parents." That is also true, on average, of parents in such places as Portugal, Finland, Sweden and Spain. "
Women are generally less happy now than they were in around 1970.
If having a career is such a boon, why are you less happy? It's probably not the kids, as we are having less kids now than fifty years ago. It's not the lack of career oportunities or college diplomas - what gives?
Oh, boy. First, no vocation hold the key to personal happiness. Secondly, have you ever given any attention to women in careers who are not personally happy? That found the promise of building a career hollow and unfulfilling? How about those women who do not have a career but rather have a job?
How about those women with children who are so consumed by their careers they neglect their children? I was one of those. I could not compete with the dopamine she received with kudos received at work. Or the feeling of power she wielded in the workplace. To top it off, she was never happy. So, we were not a happy family. So, preach to someone else.
You have a very strange view of choice if you genuinely believe that only 2% of men choose to be farmers. There has been an active economic war waged against family farms since the second World War, leading to the total erosion of the small property holding class and forcing a "get big or get out" mentality in agriculture. As a result, if you want to be a full time farmer who economically competes you have to have thousands of acres of land and millions of dollars worth of equipment. It isn't that most families choose not to be farming families, it's that being a farming family isn't economically viable for most.
Also, the form of housewifery condemned here applies primarily to the consumptive household, I think. Wendell Barry comments on this in his essay "Feminism, the Body, and the Machine." I'd highly recommend giving it a read, if you haven't already.
Woof. I found myself as a very young mother of 2 girls wondering if this is it. Do I raise my girls to be mothers and that’s all for them and me? Like, do we just hope someone has a son so we can raise someone who will be something more than a mother?
And have you ever felt like motherhood is similar to a MLM? My mother in law waxes poetic about motherhood and homemaking yet I find myself feeling very unsupported by her, almost tricked. Whew, this dumb speech has unleashed a lot of feelings. As always, your writing is its own revelation.
Oof yeah. I think it is so similar to an MLM - so bright and shiny and full of promises on the outside. The shiny veneer covers up its empty, isolating underbelly
Loved your article Celeste. “It’s not fair” and the concept of “chosen” instead of culturally forced motherhood, are seemingly obvious, yet deeply difficult ideas to implement and are desperately needed, especially in the evangelical/mormon/trad-life spheres. Thank you!
Yes while I was writing this I was like “is this so obvious?” It kinda is but boy did no one tell me! Not until I was 4 kids deep I noticed for myself.
Totally!! It seems so obvious from the outside, but when it’s normalized and taught since childhood, it makes it harder to recognize. 🙈
I’ve known my entire life I would not be “well-suited” for motherhood. And now at forty am fulfilled in my role as spinster. The truth is, it is not economically viable *for men* to not have wives to provide the free, invisible labor of housewifery. I saw this as a child, watching my mom work at her bread-baking and see the mask slip when her bitterness seeped thru - I judged her then for being mean but grown up me acknowledged the unfairness. Even grandma Nancy, our family’s gold-standard tradwife, took those secrets to her grave: we found in her meticulous records THREE times she admitted herself to psychiatric hospitals and journal entries that captured her depression. What a deception she carried out on her children and grandchildren who would all struggle with their own depression and blame themselves but also what was her alternative?? (Mrs. Friedan also railed against single, unmarried women. I guess we were the delinquents to her but Rebecca Traister’s ‘All The Single Women’ has been my spinster/female delinquent/bachelor lady bible.) I LOVE YOU CELESTE
Oh no Grandma Nancy 😭😭😭😭 Heartbreaking. Do you follow that TikTok trend “Grandma- you little victim!” I watch every one - I can’t believe what our grandmas secretly went through. May our generation do better 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼.
And yeah Friedan was no hero to be sure- she rallied against the queer community, women of color, single women, poor woman- not all that dissimilar to our man Buttlick except she rallied hard for rich white moms.
I’m going to check that out! It’s so interesting…it’s like she left all those documents behind on purpose. For us.
Wow, Celeste! Thank you for writing this. So many things to unpack. It's not fair. What men have done to women is not fair. The lies, the oppression, the manipulation, etc. is not fair. The brainwashing the church has done to women is not fair. The fact that assholes like Buttkiss exist is not fair. His speech was just disgusting.
I had the Rolling Stones song Mother's Little Helper going through my head the entire time reading this. Its about the rampant valium abuse by homemakers in the 50s and 60s. The media representation of the idealized 1950s household tends to leave that and many other details out. And thanks for another book to add to my reading list. Seems like I always come away with at least one new book to add after reading your articles.
Oh I almost put a section in this essay about Valium! It’s insane how often it was prescribed to moms! Thanks as always for your support and helpful commentary Steve!
Nailed it once again Celeste. I'm one of those single mothers with three children scrambling to make a career after the unravelling of my marriage. How I wish I had taken a vocation more seriously, instead of naively throwing myself into Mormon Wife/Mum life. Really I was doomed from the start, I've learned the hard lessons now and making sure that my children are aware of their choices and understand the impact and complexity of it. Thanks for the article as always.
What do you do for work Trina? I wish I had picked a major that led to an actual job in college (I majored in sociology) but I honestly just never thought I would need one.
I talk about jobs and college and careers with my daughters all the time. No one ever did with me.
Thank you for writing about this. I can’t believe that speech- so much hatred hurled at so many different communities and wtf is he going talking about motherhood and why does he get a platform-
Riiiiight?! So many head scratchers
Just a thought to propose. If, by nature, women are less happy when they raise children, how does humanity survive? We all seek the greatest happiness. Without women in marriages, children will not be born. Either you are against marriage or against the continuance of the species.
I think a more plausible solution is that the majority of humans tend towards fulfillment in marriages, contributing to society by giving work and children. A minority are called to primarily spiritually advance the race.
This is the raw idea as I read the first paragraphs of your article. Until you can answer these, there is no point in reading the whole thing.
Message me if this is totally wrong though. I don't know a whole lot.
I don’t think raising children necessitates a less happy life. I think the white, nuclear family living in Suburbia where the woman stays at home and the man goes to work does not set a woman up to thrive. It truly takes a village but our country does not offer any support of care work (paid family leave) and being a homemaker is for many an incredibly isolating, demanding unsupported experience.
Aha! Ergo, the study is wrong. Regardless…
1) Thanks for responding!
2) The modern system which we live in seems to be the problem. Life at home is isolating. Life at work is not. Humans are political animals, ergo the conclusion. However…
The woman is not totally alone. She ought to have friends, and she has her husband.
Isolation is needed for man to flourish, albeit in doses. Reflection, meditation, and prayer are essential for humans to flourish according to their nature.
Society needs to support the experience, and this will alleviate stress from the woman in the home.
I think your article touches on some important points. Women are not cared for these days as well as they should be. To support them is everyone’s duty. We need to start treating women better.
Why do people have to be married to procreate? I don't prayer and I am flourishing just fine. You make a some assertions without evidence just like Harrison Buttwipe.
Thanks for your questions!! There are many reasons for the former. I’ll give you two.
1) “Marriage is a personal union, intended for the whole of life, of husband and wife”. It is a pledge between two persons to raise a family and support each other through good times and bad times. The oath of fidelity strengthens this bond. True, faithful love is giving yourself to another. When a man devotes himself to a woman to the level of bringing life into the world, any action of procreating with another woman would breach the love between them. Marriage serves to deepen and strengthen the love already present among two persons—a pledge of permanence to never flee even in difficult times.
2) Marriage protects the well-being of children. There have been countless studies that point to this fact—I can send them if you would like. The children’s need to know their biological origins are satisfied. The father and mother create a household of nurturing love and encourage personal development for the child. Without marriage, the deeper purpose of reproduction is overlooked. And if people claim they won’t overlook it, why don’t they just marry?
As for prayer, here is my response. Prayer is conversation with God. God created man and loves man unconditionally. God asks that man talk with him each day. Millions of people do this and experience the unbounded love of God. God exists (I’ll explain that as well if you would like). It is evident from revelation that praying each day is essential for human happiness. Even on a not religious level, contemplation is needed for human happiness, as this is what separates us from the animals most of all.
Last point: Please don’t call the Kansas City Chiefs Kicker “Harrison Buttwipe”. Just because you disagree with him does not justify name-calling (which is a very childish device). This is not just about “being nice”. This is about discovering truth and purpose in life, about discoursing with fellow men and women. Your ad hominem attack undermines this process of discourse. I love that you are passionate about your beliefs—but don’t make that your downfall. We must let reason rule the city of our soul.
I hope this reply helps. I apologize for the length, but you proposed very good questions, and I wanted to be thorough but not too exhausting.
Thanks for your time Michael.
The Phaedo
I will no longer call him Captain Buttwipe. We need him next year. As far as marriage I am proud to say I can now after so many years of people telling me wrong. And as far as god I have yet to see empirically any evidence for a deity. Thank you for your response.
Awesome! Here’s an argument for God:
Nothing can move itself. Only another can move it. This goes to infinity unless there is a first unmoved mover, namely God. This is a boiled down version of St. Thomas Aquinas’ first proof for the existence of God.
Also, do you really think the amazing world around us was created by chance? The complexity? The detail?
Just a thought!
Really enjoy your writing. I reserved all the books you mentioned. I have so many questions and wonderings now. Especially about white women vs indigenous women.
That is a fascinating topic! It’s crazy just how recent a phenomenon the stay at home mom is
In many times in the past, babies would "go to work" with Mom -- strapped to her back or front while Mom worked the fields alongside men, or gathered roots, or worked in a kitchen -- leaving easy access to feed their babies . It wasn't that mothers and babies were separated; it was that they often experienced life side by side. It was aristocrats (throughout the world, not just in Europe) who started to separate women (and men) from their children, hiring out the labor to maids, scholars, etc., freeing their parents to rule and socialize. Of course, others wanted to mimic the ruling class, without always having the means to make it work. So......here we are.
Well done, Celeste! I’ve been both a SAHM and a career professional. Same person, same marriage, but wow what a massive happiness jump when I escaped the domestic gulag! Not to mention financial security, better health, and (also not a surprise) happier kids.
And predictably, the naysayers are out in full force, coming out of the woodwork. Truth-telling articles like this basically chum the waters for a feeding frenzy, lol.
Ha thanks!! I had to block like 20 comments- I’m fine with people disagreeing with me or bringing up counter points - kept those ones up- - I just blocked the comments attacking me and other commenters. It’s been a weird week!
Indeed. You're very welcome 😊
Beautiful work putting this together 🙌🏼
BOOM. Nail, meet head. Shout it from the rooftops!
There is so many more factors involved in “ happiness” and there are so many more societal and cultural changes that have led to women not being able to” happy” at home caring for their husbands and families. Honestly think by now we could see all that and quit dragging around a dead idea. No one is going to be “ happy” unless they feel loved by their Creator and feel like they are loving Him back period. How each of us work that out as individuals is up to us but we certainly don’t need, none of us make or female or whatever, none of us need someone else using us or feeding us a line of BS. Thank you I know you did some research and meant well I think but that is my comment I think we might just be better off lightening up a little stop analyzing our every feeling after all feelings come and go be committed to being your best self and give others the space to be there’s. Peace
Maybe it's not the homemaking and kids as such that are making you guys miserable - maybe it's your location?
"A recent analysis of data from 22 countries by sociologist Jennifer Glass and colleagues puts American results in perspective.1 Nowhere is the parental happiness gap larger than in the United States. Indeed, American parents are notably less happy here than are their Anglophone relatives in England and Australia. In some countries, most notably Norway and Hungary, parents are actually happier than non-parents." That is also true, on average, of parents in such places as Portugal, Finland, Sweden and Spain. "
Women are generally less happy now than they were in around 1970.
If having a career is such a boon, why are you less happy? It's probably not the kids, as we are having less kids now than fifty years ago. It's not the lack of career oportunities or college diplomas - what gives?
https://ocbjerke.wordpress.com/2024/04/10/female-trouble/
Oh, boy. First, no vocation hold the key to personal happiness. Secondly, have you ever given any attention to women in careers who are not personally happy? That found the promise of building a career hollow and unfulfilling? How about those women who do not have a career but rather have a job?
How about those women with children who are so consumed by their careers they neglect their children? I was one of those. I could not compete with the dopamine she received with kudos received at work. Or the feeling of power she wielded in the workplace. To top it off, she was never happy. So, we were not a happy family. So, preach to someone else.
You have a very strange view of choice if you genuinely believe that only 2% of men choose to be farmers. There has been an active economic war waged against family farms since the second World War, leading to the total erosion of the small property holding class and forcing a "get big or get out" mentality in agriculture. As a result, if you want to be a full time farmer who economically competes you have to have thousands of acres of land and millions of dollars worth of equipment. It isn't that most families choose not to be farming families, it's that being a farming family isn't economically viable for most.
Also, the form of housewifery condemned here applies primarily to the consumptive household, I think. Wendell Barry comments on this in his essay "Feminism, the Body, and the Machine." I'd highly recommend giving it a read, if you haven't already.