My very sensitive and equally strong 11 year old son immediately (from across our apartment, reading in his own room) noticed I was upset and came to my room to check on me. He looked me in the soul and asked if what I read had made me cry. I said yes. Then he just got into my bed and gave me a giant hug and told me he loves me so much.
And while I held him and felt the sincerity of his pure love, I knew I was holding my answer to your brutiful question, Celeste: my son is how I believe. I wish I could share the warmth of his simple, sincere hug with every woman holding this most brave question with us today. May all of our sons and daughters inherit the strength to hold Truth’s Loving paradox, exceedingly abundantly above all we could ask or think. Together, may we heal.
Thank you @Celeste Davis for this. It is a Horrific exposure- the Sinister & Epic truths of it - which- as much as I truly thought I knew- I - well, did Not.
I found myself- audibly gasping, sobbing in a retail parking lot- finding you thru a screenshot of another piece you wrote that my daughter sent me.
I have Always held fast to Love trumping Fear but I was gutted when I reached the bits about naïveté & its cost.
@Grace Fierce- THANK YOU for This ☝️. Yes. ✨♥️
I Must hold on to this. Not blindly so but with equal measures responsibility and faith- (the Paradox of Love as you say).
I have raised two sons to the ages of 34 & 26. I raise my nephew now. He is all of 9. A sweet & intuitive boy who requests that I snuggle and sing him the same song I did when he was a baby each nite at tuck in.
I don’t consider the job of mothering any of my boys (even the now grown men) ever complete though. I will never be silent about things that matter deeply to me. I will ever seek to draw out their thoughts and feelings; to inspire them to the highest energetic spaces of responsibility, humanity, dignity, repair, care… Love.
I also birthed two daughters- 28 & 14.
I need to believe there is a way to end the raping, violence, erasure, & killing of women. Without this faith-my energy evaporates; despair sets in.
I have so many thoughts and feelings about this. It amounts to a kind of collective cultural terrorism and trauma that women (and some men) live with every day. I was at a baseball game with my kids this summer and found myself looking at the players in the dugout, at their tall frames and strong arms, and wondering how many of them had raped women. Statistically speaking, there were some rapists on that field. I worked at a bookstore in college where one of my duties was to replace the daily newspapers on the stands and return the unsold copies. Every single day, there was a story of horrible violence or sexual assault against women or girls in those papers. I started an art project, cutting out and collaging the articles onto a female mannequin, then abandoned the project because it was too depressing. Not to be a downer, but after 14 years as a therapist, I no longer believe that everyone is innately good. I've sat in sessions with rapists and child molesters and they are not good. I've heard countless stories from women and men who have been assaulted. I think the default human setting is "selfish" and there is a spectrum of how far someone evolves beyond that. As my own therapist pointed out to me years ago when I was depressed about this, having empathy for others is actually pretty sophisticated developmentally and a lot of people never get there. (Lindsay Gibson's series of books about emotionally immature people is invaluable if you want to understand this better.) In a culture that teaches men that women are inferior objects that exist to serve them and satisfy their needs, it's not a big leap to casually rape a woman. I think about Hannah Arendt's ideas about the banality of evil, that these evil acts are sadly quite ordinary and commonplace. Sometimes all I can do is look at the boy I'm raising and reassure myself that this one, at least, has been hearing messages since he was a toddler about the importance of bodily autonomy and consent. This one, at least, shows empathy for others.
Thank you for this. I am in the messy & hurting middle of healing from a lot of trauma inflicted my many many men, & I struggle so with the data, along with my own lived experience. I am ok with being full of rage & grief right now, as it is completely valid & crucial for me to truly heal. I ended all toxic relationships a few years ago, including one with a man. Loneliness is real in a new city, but more often I am loving my solitude (well, me & my kitty girl), & loving myself. I don't know if I will ever have a relationship with a man in the future, as I have no trust at all. I loved this piece, your comment, & many other comments. It helps to remember I'm not alone, & we are stronger together. 🪷
But recently I came to terms with the fact that most men are essentially "Good" guys. But they need to take ACTION on being good guys. It's not enough to just be someone who won't rape a woman. They need to learn about what misogyny is and teach themselves to stand up to it, because it's the microagressions against women that lead to the bigger aggressions and the lack of culpability in the justice system for predators.
Until very recently I was angry at and afraid of all men. But then I started thinking about all my male friends who truly are "good" guys. They don't understand what women go through because they have not had that experience themselves. But they are learning and growing. They are now aware of their ignorance.
Men can't know what they don't know. But I think it's time for them to recognize that their ignorance is no longer an excuse for not being Protectors. Sexual predators exist because of the patriarchal system that protects them. It's not enough to just not be abusive, you need to be anti-abuse. And that starts with no longer being silent on these issues.
Know that there are men who don't take a defensive posture when women say the things you're saying here. And, some of us are trying to do something about it.
Nice one, bro... have joined:)! TBH, I also totally don't get why men get all defensive about these issues. It's like some deep-seated insecurity or something:)
Rape is absolutely horrific as is any sexual assault/coercion. And it is indeed horrifically common, even within marriages. 😢
When we broaden the view to include all the other forms of abuse (psychological, emotional, financial, spiritual, abuse of pets, etc.) the numbers become astronomical, astounding and appalling.
Following Zawn Villanes work helped open my eyes to this horrible reality as well as my own experiences of abuse by four different (educated, “normal”) men and the thousands of experiences I have seen other women go through. Zawn says abuse from males to females in the heterosexual relationship is the NORM. And she is right. All her work and research is spot on and is crucial to share with young women (and any women for that matter.)
“Most (and emphasis on most) men psychologically terrorize women.” (she is writing on in the context of heterosexual intimate relationships) - bell hooks “All About Love”…that book is a must read!
I don’t believe there is an ounce of goodness within anyone who consistently dupes, exploits, manipulates and abuses others. They choose this way to operate and they do not care the consequences it has for the victims. It’s hard to believe but there simply are a lot of people who have zero empathy and zero conscience. It’s within the context of intimate relationships, that this manifests itself most often.
Other books to help better understand and connect these dots on this complex issue:
“Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men” by Lundy Bancroft
“How He Gets Into Her Head” by Don Hennessy
And don’t forget about bell hooks “All About Love”
Honestly I don’t see why we need to. We treat rape as somehow different to all other crimes. When we say ‘hey, we need to take steps to make sure murder and robbery rates are reduced’, nobody starts whining about how ‘well not ALL PEOPLE are murderers and robbers!!!’ yeah nobody cares that they aren’t. Actual murderers and robbers should be stopped and/or tried for their crimes. Anything else is just inconsequential rubbish. And everyone gets this. So why not with rape??
Right? Also nobody ever asks how we reconcile the fact that some people are murderers with the fact that we don’t hate all the people on the planet. I just wish we’d treat it like any other crime.
The dichotomies that start for women and girls at such a young age are hard. I reflected on my first experience with sexual assault this week in my post Eleven. https://stephenieg.substack.com/p/eleven
I think I’ve been asking similar questions since I learned how patriarchy excuses boys for “just” being boys. I believe they can be so much more than “just” boys.
Very true indeed. And truly heartbreaking too. "Boys will be boys" is all too often used as a fig leaf to excuse truly subhuman behavior, and that needs to end yesterday.
Raised in an alcoholic, patriarchal perpetrator family, I've never seen men as protectors (except in fiction TV ) - just something I have to protect myself from ALWAYS. I have worked at correctional institutions where one of BIGGEST tasks of rehab was to get men to be their own man so they could withstand being out of a gang.
I agree this is the strangest thing about the male human. I no longer have nightmares about the night I was sexually assaulted in my tent on a military base - by the person who was on patrol duty in order to PROTECT ME. I reported the incident to military police within a half-hour of its occurrence, in writing. At the assailant's trial I didn't deviate from my report by so much as a comma. He was convicted of "conduct to the prejudice of good order and discipline", and sentenced to a 30-day term in a military prison. My sentence was to have nightmares for a year about the event, avail myself of some psychiatric counselling, and finally rid myself of the perpetrator through dream therapy, in which I killed him. This incident happened 46 years ago, and I still can summon up my mix of rage and terror whenever I unlock those memories. Rape is real and it does lasting damage to its victims, no matter what you might think, fellows. So if you are thinking about indulging yourself with it - DON'T.
Celeste, it’s like you read my mind. This is what I’ve been wrestling in earnest with for weeks, and trying to write about but struggling to capture the nuance without the piece becoming unwieldy. A few weeks ago a woman around my age was murdered in her apartment complex by her neighbor, and this happened within walking distance from where I live. It’s made it hard for me to feel comfortable around my male neighbors, and I hate it.
I admire and commend your desire to go on believing in the goodness of men. I myself have almost given up. Personal experience has demolished my assumption that most men have good intentions and will behave humanely given the opportunity.
Thanks for writing on this weighty topic which unfortunately sits in the background of our culture and the forefront of women's minds. It’s awful that in most of the world, women can’t travel alone without being on edge for fear of being assaulted and I hate it.
I believe the feminist movement has created more awareness of these problems and has started a cultural shift. It has for me and my group of close male friends through the last several years. It’s made me realize how toxic objectifying women is, and how the patriarchy hurts (almost all) men as well by taking away the ability to genuinely connect at depth.
I see the incel/toxic masculinity culture as the reaction from emotionally immature men hearing feminism as an attack. These men are lonely, angry, and horny, and blame “woke” voices for changing the power structure away from the picture of a traditional American dream. The patriarchy can put the idea in young men’s heads that they should have everything and everyone they ever wanted, regardless of reality or consent. I think mainstream porn is a net negative on society due to how it reinforces this, despite it being a sexual outlet, but that’s an entirely different topic. It’s hard to feel hopeful about this lately with Trump at the top of the ticket and half of America willing to vote for an obvious sexual predator.
Something that men do need is a safe space to be emotional. We lack safe communities where we can cry; we were taught to keep it in. I hope for a future where things are better, but we certainly have a long way to go.
The Chalice and the Blade was the first thing I ever read that made me feel seen in a spiritual context. Might have to join you for this! So glad you’re holding this space.
Hi Celeste, I read an interview between Elise Lehman and Jungian elder James Hollis recently which would guide the conversation you are trying to encourage here. The post preceding this one (see the link below) on Elise’s Substack is also well worth reading or listening to. And, I’ve just noticed a third part to the conversation was uploaded a week ago titled what’s Happening to Our Boys?
I wept as I read this.
My very sensitive and equally strong 11 year old son immediately (from across our apartment, reading in his own room) noticed I was upset and came to my room to check on me. He looked me in the soul and asked if what I read had made me cry. I said yes. Then he just got into my bed and gave me a giant hug and told me he loves me so much.
And while I held him and felt the sincerity of his pure love, I knew I was holding my answer to your brutiful question, Celeste: my son is how I believe. I wish I could share the warmth of his simple, sincere hug with every woman holding this most brave question with us today. May all of our sons and daughters inherit the strength to hold Truth’s Loving paradox, exceedingly abundantly above all we could ask or think. Together, may we heal.
Thank you, Celeste.
Thank you @Celeste Davis for this. It is a Horrific exposure- the Sinister & Epic truths of it - which- as much as I truly thought I knew- I - well, did Not.
I found myself- audibly gasping, sobbing in a retail parking lot- finding you thru a screenshot of another piece you wrote that my daughter sent me.
I have Always held fast to Love trumping Fear but I was gutted when I reached the bits about naïveté & its cost.
@Grace Fierce- THANK YOU for This ☝️. Yes. ✨♥️
I Must hold on to this. Not blindly so but with equal measures responsibility and faith- (the Paradox of Love as you say).
I have raised two sons to the ages of 34 & 26. I raise my nephew now. He is all of 9. A sweet & intuitive boy who requests that I snuggle and sing him the same song I did when he was a baby each nite at tuck in.
I don’t consider the job of mothering any of my boys (even the now grown men) ever complete though. I will never be silent about things that matter deeply to me. I will ever seek to draw out their thoughts and feelings; to inspire them to the highest energetic spaces of responsibility, humanity, dignity, repair, care… Love.
I also birthed two daughters- 28 & 14.
I need to believe there is a way to end the raping, violence, erasure, & killing of women. Without this faith-my energy evaporates; despair sets in.
Sending Love & Strength✨♥️
Amen. Mutual empathy is a beautiful thing indeed. Let the healing begin.
I have so many thoughts and feelings about this. It amounts to a kind of collective cultural terrorism and trauma that women (and some men) live with every day. I was at a baseball game with my kids this summer and found myself looking at the players in the dugout, at their tall frames and strong arms, and wondering how many of them had raped women. Statistically speaking, there were some rapists on that field. I worked at a bookstore in college where one of my duties was to replace the daily newspapers on the stands and return the unsold copies. Every single day, there was a story of horrible violence or sexual assault against women or girls in those papers. I started an art project, cutting out and collaging the articles onto a female mannequin, then abandoned the project because it was too depressing. Not to be a downer, but after 14 years as a therapist, I no longer believe that everyone is innately good. I've sat in sessions with rapists and child molesters and they are not good. I've heard countless stories from women and men who have been assaulted. I think the default human setting is "selfish" and there is a spectrum of how far someone evolves beyond that. As my own therapist pointed out to me years ago when I was depressed about this, having empathy for others is actually pretty sophisticated developmentally and a lot of people never get there. (Lindsay Gibson's series of books about emotionally immature people is invaluable if you want to understand this better.) In a culture that teaches men that women are inferior objects that exist to serve them and satisfy their needs, it's not a big leap to casually rape a woman. I think about Hannah Arendt's ideas about the banality of evil, that these evil acts are sadly quite ordinary and commonplace. Sometimes all I can do is look at the boy I'm raising and reassure myself that this one, at least, has been hearing messages since he was a toddler about the importance of bodily autonomy and consent. This one, at least, shows empathy for others.
Thank you for this. I am in the messy & hurting middle of healing from a lot of trauma inflicted my many many men, & I struggle so with the data, along with my own lived experience. I am ok with being full of rage & grief right now, as it is completely valid & crucial for me to truly heal. I ended all toxic relationships a few years ago, including one with a man. Loneliness is real in a new city, but more often I am loving my solitude (well, me & my kitty girl), & loving myself. I don't know if I will ever have a relationship with a man in the future, as I have no trust at all. I loved this piece, your comment, & many other comments. It helps to remember I'm not alone, & we are stronger together. 🪷
Indeed, evil certainly does exist, and there is zero benefit to denying that.
Definitely something I've written about and spoken about a lot (https://elizabethgracemartinez.substack.com/p/the-good-guys-who-enable-sexual-predators)
But recently I came to terms with the fact that most men are essentially "Good" guys. But they need to take ACTION on being good guys. It's not enough to just be someone who won't rape a woman. They need to learn about what misogyny is and teach themselves to stand up to it, because it's the microagressions against women that lead to the bigger aggressions and the lack of culpability in the justice system for predators.
Until very recently I was angry at and afraid of all men. But then I started thinking about all my male friends who truly are "good" guys. They don't understand what women go through because they have not had that experience themselves. But they are learning and growing. They are now aware of their ignorance.
Men can't know what they don't know. But I think it's time for them to recognize that their ignorance is no longer an excuse for not being Protectors. Sexual predators exist because of the patriarchal system that protects them. It's not enough to just not be abusive, you need to be anti-abuse. And that starts with no longer being silent on these issues.
i posted an essay about this in the music industry here https://elizabethgracemartinez.substack.com/p/can-there-ever-be-me-too-reckoning
Know that there are men who don't take a defensive posture when women say the things you're saying here. And, some of us are trying to do something about it.
https://tgentry.substack.com/p/he-wont-die-if-he-doesnt-get-laid
Nice one, bro... have joined:)! TBH, I also totally don't get why men get all defensive about these issues. It's like some deep-seated insecurity or something:)
Rape is absolutely horrific as is any sexual assault/coercion. And it is indeed horrifically common, even within marriages. 😢
When we broaden the view to include all the other forms of abuse (psychological, emotional, financial, spiritual, abuse of pets, etc.) the numbers become astronomical, astounding and appalling.
Following Zawn Villanes work helped open my eyes to this horrible reality as well as my own experiences of abuse by four different (educated, “normal”) men and the thousands of experiences I have seen other women go through. Zawn says abuse from males to females in the heterosexual relationship is the NORM. And she is right. All her work and research is spot on and is crucial to share with young women (and any women for that matter.)
“Most (and emphasis on most) men psychologically terrorize women.” (she is writing on in the context of heterosexual intimate relationships) - bell hooks “All About Love”…that book is a must read!
I don’t believe there is an ounce of goodness within anyone who consistently dupes, exploits, manipulates and abuses others. They choose this way to operate and they do not care the consequences it has for the victims. It’s hard to believe but there simply are a lot of people who have zero empathy and zero conscience. It’s within the context of intimate relationships, that this manifests itself most often.
Other books to help better understand and connect these dots on this complex issue:
“Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men” by Lundy Bancroft
“How He Gets Into Her Head” by Don Hennessy
And don’t forget about bell hooks “All About Love”
You have convinced me to read Bell Hooks’s work.
You will not be disappointed ☺️🌸
I second your recommendation of Zawn Villines work.
Honestly I don’t see why we need to. We treat rape as somehow different to all other crimes. When we say ‘hey, we need to take steps to make sure murder and robbery rates are reduced’, nobody starts whining about how ‘well not ALL PEOPLE are murderers and robbers!!!’ yeah nobody cares that they aren’t. Actual murderers and robbers should be stopped and/or tried for their crimes. Anything else is just inconsequential rubbish. And everyone gets this. So why not with rape??
THIS PART.
Right? Also nobody ever asks how we reconcile the fact that some people are murderers with the fact that we don’t hate all the people on the planet. I just wish we’d treat it like any other crime.
I don’t think the solution is to believe in men at all, but rather to believe deeply and completely in ourselves.
So many good questions!!
The dichotomies that start for women and girls at such a young age are hard. I reflected on my first experience with sexual assault this week in my post Eleven. https://stephenieg.substack.com/p/eleven
I think I’ve been asking similar questions since I learned how patriarchy excuses boys for “just” being boys. I believe they can be so much more than “just” boys.
Very true indeed. And truly heartbreaking too. "Boys will be boys" is all too often used as a fig leaf to excuse truly subhuman behavior, and that needs to end yesterday.
Raised in an alcoholic, patriarchal perpetrator family, I've never seen men as protectors (except in fiction TV ) - just something I have to protect myself from ALWAYS. I have worked at correctional institutions where one of BIGGEST tasks of rehab was to get men to be their own man so they could withstand being out of a gang.
I agree this is the strangest thing about the male human. I no longer have nightmares about the night I was sexually assaulted in my tent on a military base - by the person who was on patrol duty in order to PROTECT ME. I reported the incident to military police within a half-hour of its occurrence, in writing. At the assailant's trial I didn't deviate from my report by so much as a comma. He was convicted of "conduct to the prejudice of good order and discipline", and sentenced to a 30-day term in a military prison. My sentence was to have nightmares for a year about the event, avail myself of some psychiatric counselling, and finally rid myself of the perpetrator through dream therapy, in which I killed him. This incident happened 46 years ago, and I still can summon up my mix of rage and terror whenever I unlock those memories. Rape is real and it does lasting damage to its victims, no matter what you might think, fellows. So if you are thinking about indulging yourself with it - DON'T.
Celeste, it’s like you read my mind. This is what I’ve been wrestling in earnest with for weeks, and trying to write about but struggling to capture the nuance without the piece becoming unwieldy. A few weeks ago a woman around my age was murdered in her apartment complex by her neighbor, and this happened within walking distance from where I live. It’s made it hard for me to feel comfortable around my male neighbors, and I hate it.
I admire and commend your desire to go on believing in the goodness of men. I myself have almost given up. Personal experience has demolished my assumption that most men have good intentions and will behave humanely given the opportunity.
Thanks for writing on this weighty topic which unfortunately sits in the background of our culture and the forefront of women's minds. It’s awful that in most of the world, women can’t travel alone without being on edge for fear of being assaulted and I hate it.
I believe the feminist movement has created more awareness of these problems and has started a cultural shift. It has for me and my group of close male friends through the last several years. It’s made me realize how toxic objectifying women is, and how the patriarchy hurts (almost all) men as well by taking away the ability to genuinely connect at depth.
I see the incel/toxic masculinity culture as the reaction from emotionally immature men hearing feminism as an attack. These men are lonely, angry, and horny, and blame “woke” voices for changing the power structure away from the picture of a traditional American dream. The patriarchy can put the idea in young men’s heads that they should have everything and everyone they ever wanted, regardless of reality or consent. I think mainstream porn is a net negative on society due to how it reinforces this, despite it being a sexual outlet, but that’s an entirely different topic. It’s hard to feel hopeful about this lately with Trump at the top of the ticket and half of America willing to vote for an obvious sexual predator.
Something that men do need is a safe space to be emotional. We lack safe communities where we can cry; we were taught to keep it in. I hope for a future where things are better, but we certainly have a long way to go.
Thanks for sharing, Nate.
The Chalice and the Blade was the first thing I ever read that made me feel seen in a spiritual context. Might have to join you for this! So glad you’re holding this space.
Amen. Riane Eisler is correct.
This is an amazing read. I have been asking myself the same questions as of late.
Hi Celeste, I read an interview between Elise Lehman and Jungian elder James Hollis recently which would guide the conversation you are trying to encourage here. The post preceding this one (see the link below) on Elise’s Substack is also well worth reading or listening to. And, I’ve just noticed a third part to the conversation was uploaded a week ago titled what’s Happening to Our Boys?
https://open.substack.com/pub/eliseloehnen/p/a-crisis-of-male-loneliness?r=rv4mx&utm_medium=ios
Auto correct!!!
Elise Loehnen