Accountability with Love creates Justice. It makes space for justice to emerge.
About Budde, Diane Butler Bass, here on Substack, is friends with her. She said in her 'The Convocation' that Budde only spoke those last 3 minutes to the president by the movement of Spirit. She had not written that out or planned on saying those words. They emerged in the moment with the President and JD Vance and their people only a few feet away from her and they had no ability to say anything back in the moment. They were forced to hear her words of love and accountability. Of course, later they've said plenty. But it was quite a potent moment of the movement and flow of Truth with a capital T.
This brings to mind one of the messages from the manosphere that troubles me most… the idea that men should avoid women who are not completely submissive to them.
They describe powerful, ambitious, or independent women as masculine.
They discourage men from romantic involvement with any woman who has a voice and uses it.
In reality, when a man is secure enough to accept constructive feedback from a woman who is secure enough to give it to him, everyone wins. It strengthens the relationship. It supports him in being a better man.
It is a cop out when we intentionally avoid women who are willing to challenge us to be better.
If a fraction of the Republican caucus on Capitol Hill had a fraction of the courage Budde demonstrated in her speech, he who I will not name would never have been president in the first place.
The fact that it now takes courage to remind a leader to be kind and merciful is shameful, and says a lot about who we have become, as an electorate.
Oh my—-I don’t even know what to say. You’ve said it all—and so beautifully! I’m at the beginning of my journey and I’m 63. I’m just now learning to love a man and hold him accountable. I didn’t even realize that’s what I was struggling to do until I read your article. This is not an easy task, particularly at my age. It would be so much simple to just sever ties with him. This idea is what my Substack and forthcoming book are meant for. Thank you so much for enlightening my eyes.
YES yes Yes YES. 🙋🏻♀️ Emerging from the same soup, holding the same tools. It still gets me, every time, to see an ordained woman at a pulpit, speaking with authority. And then using that authority to not just be sweet and palatable, quoting and underlining what the male leaders have already said? Calling them out?! It's shocking to my little system, and I am so grateful to be alive in a time I can witness it. Also really loved this list of thinkers. Grateful for every word and every action (millions upon millions, yours included) it’s taken and will continue to take to shift our world towards more love & accountability.
I loved Rev. Buddy’s sermon. Sadly the person she was talking to at the end didn’t listen and doesn’t care. Your analysis of accountability + love was really impactful. I had never thought about it that way, but it makes total sense. We need a lot more accountability+love in the world, especially in the US, right now. I also fully support the 4b movement. If men are going to view women as objects, then take away those things that men use to objectify women. Seems like a pretty logical way to create change.
Aishah Shahidah Simmons has been writing and imagining this intersection for decades. I appreciate newer voices including white women like Bishop Budde whose bravery inspired me deeply last week, and also want to recognize that Black women have developed these ideas and put them out in the world long ago. https://www.lovewithaccountability.com/about-aishah
I’m reading a book called 10-25 with a lot of research-based tips on how to appeal to and work with people within this age range. There’s a large emphasis on the developmental tasks of establishing a sense of status and belonging in the world at this phase. To address this fundamental need, the book asserts, one must employ a high-expectation, high-support approach. In short, you must approach people with a sense of faith in their competence and a willingness to support them in employing it and further developing it.
I just thought this idea mapped nicely onto your point here.
Yes I think high expectations coupled with a genuine belief in them. What I see now in feminist discourse is high expectations for men without a belief that they are capable of meeting those expectations.
This is what I found out worked when teaching university students. Set the bar high enough so they have to work hard, but support them in getting there. I always told them…if you put the effort in, I will help you succeed, but you have to be willing to put the work in. That means…I will read an essay you wrote and help you improve; I will answer questions about the reading, I will assist you with that c.v., write you a decent letter of recommendation that can help you. But if you don’t read or show up, I’m not too available.
That’s how I train the young engineers that work under me.
I push them out in front to face our client direct, I stand behind them and guide them, direct them, support them.
All correspondence is in their name, I review it detail and discuss and explain the psychology of the response and motivations giving context and meaning and they front the client meetings with me out of the picture so they cannot hide behind me.
I want them to own the project they work on and I want them to face the demands of our client. It’s all about ownership and care factor and stepping up.
As engineers they are intelligent and have had to be motivated to get though an engineering degree.
It’s a lot of work for me but I am trying to turn them into self managing, critical thinkers who don’t assume, dig into the details and be good engineers.
It depended really on the student. There were some that just wanted the degree and to do the minimum, but I had a goodly number that actually wanted to learn. I found PhD students more motivated than the students in a MA course; older students tended to be more conscientious because they were paying the tuition, not their parents.
Wow, thanks for this concept of love in tension with accountability! Never thought about it this way. Thanks for all of the recommendations of people in this space. Sure appreciate your insights!
When you said that Mormonism just taught all about love I initially was shocked…. What????? I feel like it took leaving the church to learn about love. I learned how to love myself and all other humans only after leaving. But then you clarified and said we learned to love the men. Oooohhhhhh yes. This is true. 🤣 so true. Unfortunately undeniably true. We love the men at the expense of loving ourselves and all other humans.
I can’t recall ever disagreeing with you, haha. But I kinda disagree today. (Not with the actual content of anything you’re sharing or with the absolute goldmine of people at the end I cannot wait to check out!!!). But maybe I *lovingly* disagree that Love isn’t all we need? Because in my experience, true Love (for both self and others) ALWAYS requires accountability. Perhaps it’s because I’m still buzzing from finishing the Chalice and the Blade for book club this week, but I wholeheartedly believe the underlying issue here is that we’ve been so thoroughly brainwashed into domination’s countless forms of shame and fear-motivation that we’ve lost touch with how Love naturally functions.
If, for example, my son wants to play video games and neglect his responsibilities toward housework or school work, it is absolutely my LOVE that fuels explaining in no uncertain terms that I will not allow him to hurt himself and his future family in that way. And not because I’m the boss or I said so or any of that BS. But because he knows I wholeheartedly LOVE him more than anything, the boundaries I consistently require are FOR HIM to experience the agency and self respect that come with fulfilling his own potential and holding himself accountable (esp when I’m no longer around). Obvi not in those words, but he can and has explained this and knows when people (often teachers) are using rules to dominate him because he FEELS the difference. Even his dad still struggles to communicate boundaries (accountability) attached to LOVE. So when he senses his dad’s demands come from a place of control, my son WISELY tends to defy him in a way he almost never tries to defy me. And I (secretly) *LOVE* mediating that for both of them.
Not sure how you feel about Brené Brown, but this reminds me of her research on compassion + boundaries, ie how consistently the most effectively compassionate people in the world are also the best at enforcing boundaries. So maybe none of these have ever been separate. Maybe our domination brainwashing just scared us into believing they were (until now!)🤯
Wow. This spoke to me so deeply. Thank you. I loved bishop budde’s sermon and now I love it more. I also realize that what I have been longing for with a few personal relationships is “accountability” - I just knew I was feeling resentful but didn’t have the language for it. Thank you - looking forward to looking into all the great people/links you shared❤️❤️
Amy McPhee Alabest has been a really important educator for me. She also did a recent Breaking Down Patriarchy video with Leatha Udabayanu who is soooo gifted at teaching “compassionate accountability” a term I’ve heard her use for the balance of love and accountability. I cannot recommend Leatha’s workshops “essentially awake” enough.
I can’t tell you how much I enjoy reading your articles. I graduated with a major in women’s studies in the mid 90s, and then had a career in medicine. I no longer practice medicine and my ability to read is limited due to a visual disability, so I do greatly appreciate your audio versions of your articles. Thank you for doing this work, and for your reading recommendations. bell hooks was a real favorite of mine in college, and it’s time to listen to her more recent work.
Thank you, Celeste.
Accountability with Love creates Justice. It makes space for justice to emerge.
About Budde, Diane Butler Bass, here on Substack, is friends with her. She said in her 'The Convocation' that Budde only spoke those last 3 minutes to the president by the movement of Spirit. She had not written that out or planned on saying those words. They emerged in the moment with the President and JD Vance and their people only a few feet away from her and they had no ability to say anything back in the moment. They were forced to hear her words of love and accountability. Of course, later they've said plenty. But it was quite a potent moment of the movement and flow of Truth with a capital T.
This brings to mind one of the messages from the manosphere that troubles me most… the idea that men should avoid women who are not completely submissive to them.
They describe powerful, ambitious, or independent women as masculine.
They discourage men from romantic involvement with any woman who has a voice and uses it.
In reality, when a man is secure enough to accept constructive feedback from a woman who is secure enough to give it to him, everyone wins. It strengthens the relationship. It supports him in being a better man.
It is a cop out when we intentionally avoid women who are willing to challenge us to be better.
If a fraction of the Republican caucus on Capitol Hill had a fraction of the courage Budde demonstrated in her speech, he who I will not name would never have been president in the first place.
The fact that it now takes courage to remind a leader to be kind and merciful is shameful, and says a lot about who we have become, as an electorate.
Oh my—-I don’t even know what to say. You’ve said it all—and so beautifully! I’m at the beginning of my journey and I’m 63. I’m just now learning to love a man and hold him accountable. I didn’t even realize that’s what I was struggling to do until I read your article. This is not an easy task, particularly at my age. It would be so much simple to just sever ties with him. This idea is what my Substack and forthcoming book are meant for. Thank you so much for enlightening my eyes.
I am 58. My husband is 64. We are very much navigating similar waters. Grateful my recent post landed me in this algorithm.
YES yes Yes YES. 🙋🏻♀️ Emerging from the same soup, holding the same tools. It still gets me, every time, to see an ordained woman at a pulpit, speaking with authority. And then using that authority to not just be sweet and palatable, quoting and underlining what the male leaders have already said? Calling them out?! It's shocking to my little system, and I am so grateful to be alive in a time I can witness it. Also really loved this list of thinkers. Grateful for every word and every action (millions upon millions, yours included) it’s taken and will continue to take to shift our world towards more love & accountability.
I loved Rev. Buddy’s sermon. Sadly the person she was talking to at the end didn’t listen and doesn’t care. Your analysis of accountability + love was really impactful. I had never thought about it that way, but it makes total sense. We need a lot more accountability+love in the world, especially in the US, right now. I also fully support the 4b movement. If men are going to view women as objects, then take away those things that men use to objectify women. Seems like a pretty logical way to create change.
Aishah Shahidah Simmons has been writing and imagining this intersection for decades. I appreciate newer voices including white women like Bishop Budde whose bravery inspired me deeply last week, and also want to recognize that Black women have developed these ideas and put them out in the world long ago. https://www.lovewithaccountability.com/about-aishah
Very true- thanks for the rec
Whoa 🤯
Brilliant article. You have given so much to think about. Need to read again, but thank you for an amazing essay.
I’m reading a book called 10-25 with a lot of research-based tips on how to appeal to and work with people within this age range. There’s a large emphasis on the developmental tasks of establishing a sense of status and belonging in the world at this phase. To address this fundamental need, the book asserts, one must employ a high-expectation, high-support approach. In short, you must approach people with a sense of faith in their competence and a willingness to support them in employing it and further developing it.
I just thought this idea mapped nicely onto your point here.
Yes I think high expectations coupled with a genuine belief in them. What I see now in feminist discourse is high expectations for men without a belief that they are capable of meeting those expectations.
Exactly! And I think any human being can smell it when they sense you’re not coming from an assumption of competence/capacity.
This is what I found out worked when teaching university students. Set the bar high enough so they have to work hard, but support them in getting there. I always told them…if you put the effort in, I will help you succeed, but you have to be willing to put the work in. That means…I will read an essay you wrote and help you improve; I will answer questions about the reading, I will assist you with that c.v., write you a decent letter of recommendation that can help you. But if you don’t read or show up, I’m not too available.
I was the same way with grad students. The worst part was, though, how few of them really took me up on it. Did you find that as well?
That’s how I train the young engineers that work under me.
I push them out in front to face our client direct, I stand behind them and guide them, direct them, support them.
All correspondence is in their name, I review it detail and discuss and explain the psychology of the response and motivations giving context and meaning and they front the client meetings with me out of the picture so they cannot hide behind me.
I want them to own the project they work on and I want them to face the demands of our client. It’s all about ownership and care factor and stepping up.
As engineers they are intelligent and have had to be motivated to get though an engineering degree.
It’s a lot of work for me but I am trying to turn them into self managing, critical thinkers who don’t assume, dig into the details and be good engineers.
I could have used more bosses like you. 😊
It depended really on the student. There were some that just wanted the degree and to do the minimum, but I had a goodly number that actually wanted to learn. I found PhD students more motivated than the students in a MA course; older students tended to be more conscientious because they were paying the tuition, not their parents.
Wow, thanks for this concept of love in tension with accountability! Never thought about it this way. Thanks for all of the recommendations of people in this space. Sure appreciate your insights!
When you said that Mormonism just taught all about love I initially was shocked…. What????? I feel like it took leaving the church to learn about love. I learned how to love myself and all other humans only after leaving. But then you clarified and said we learned to love the men. Oooohhhhhh yes. This is true. 🤣 so true. Unfortunately undeniably true. We love the men at the expense of loving ourselves and all other humans.
Thanks so much for another great essay, Celeste! xx
I can’t recall ever disagreeing with you, haha. But I kinda disagree today. (Not with the actual content of anything you’re sharing or with the absolute goldmine of people at the end I cannot wait to check out!!!). But maybe I *lovingly* disagree that Love isn’t all we need? Because in my experience, true Love (for both self and others) ALWAYS requires accountability. Perhaps it’s because I’m still buzzing from finishing the Chalice and the Blade for book club this week, but I wholeheartedly believe the underlying issue here is that we’ve been so thoroughly brainwashed into domination’s countless forms of shame and fear-motivation that we’ve lost touch with how Love naturally functions.
If, for example, my son wants to play video games and neglect his responsibilities toward housework or school work, it is absolutely my LOVE that fuels explaining in no uncertain terms that I will not allow him to hurt himself and his future family in that way. And not because I’m the boss or I said so or any of that BS. But because he knows I wholeheartedly LOVE him more than anything, the boundaries I consistently require are FOR HIM to experience the agency and self respect that come with fulfilling his own potential and holding himself accountable (esp when I’m no longer around). Obvi not in those words, but he can and has explained this and knows when people (often teachers) are using rules to dominate him because he FEELS the difference. Even his dad still struggles to communicate boundaries (accountability) attached to LOVE. So when he senses his dad’s demands come from a place of control, my son WISELY tends to defy him in a way he almost never tries to defy me. And I (secretly) *LOVE* mediating that for both of them.
Not sure how you feel about Brené Brown, but this reminds me of her research on compassion + boundaries, ie how consistently the most effectively compassionate people in the world are also the best at enforcing boundaries. So maybe none of these have ever been separate. Maybe our domination brainwashing just scared us into believing they were (until now!)🤯
Spot on, again, Celeste. We need both. Without love, we only sow more division. Without accountability, we cannot hope to end oppression.
Wow. This spoke to me so deeply. Thank you. I loved bishop budde’s sermon and now I love it more. I also realize that what I have been longing for with a few personal relationships is “accountability” - I just knew I was feeling resentful but didn’t have the language for it. Thank you - looking forward to looking into all the great people/links you shared❤️❤️
Amy McPhee Alabest has been a really important educator for me. She also did a recent Breaking Down Patriarchy video with Leatha Udabayanu who is soooo gifted at teaching “compassionate accountability” a term I’ve heard her use for the balance of love and accountability. I cannot recommend Leatha’s workshops “essentially awake” enough.
I can’t tell you how much I enjoy reading your articles. I graduated with a major in women’s studies in the mid 90s, and then had a career in medicine. I no longer practice medicine and my ability to read is limited due to a visual disability, so I do greatly appreciate your audio versions of your articles. Thank you for doing this work, and for your reading recommendations. bell hooks was a real favorite of mine in college, and it’s time to listen to her more recent work.