This is it! Last year, as my marriage was beginning to implode with resentment and hostility bursting from the seams, we saw a counselor. Gottman was the only script, and it eventually became clear to me how superficial and ineffective this method was for us. My resentment grew to include the counselor and his generic band-aid for the bullet wound to my female humanity. I felt deeply there was something so very wrong with the approach but which I could not define. And felt shame for even questioning. Thank you for the unraveling and the validation I needed. My soul is healing.
For me too! My husband and I are working through this now - after 30 years together I just could not take it anymore (the resentment and unhappiness burst at the seams). Ensuring that he reads this essay as part of his therapy and healing.
I have heard so many times, “men want respect and women want love” but when I search my soul my deepest desire is to be respected. For my words to matter and my experiences and knowing to hold weight. So many scripts written about staying in our assigned boxes.
Another thought I had as I read your article and I thought of the way so many men feel about feminine qualities was “How can you really respect certain qualities in others that make you feel contempt when you see them in yourself?”
I got married in the mid 1990s and remember thinking about his experiments in my first few years of marriage. I actually tried to make sure I was adhering to the 5:1 ratio, and trying to go beyond that. I would imagine Gottman sitting next to my husband and I at dinner and counting the positives to negatives, and deciding whether we were headed for divorce or not.
Recently, my husband was talking about how his mother used to say, "Why am I everyone's punching bag?" and my daughter responded with, "That sounds like the kind of thing mom would say." I thought, hey, that's not fair. I've never said that! I've held back from saying that for 30 years! But obviously, my resentment had come through.
I loved seeing Gottman's work reframed through a systemic patriarchal lens. Thank you!! What a great read.
Thank you! Clarity for both sexes. I feel too much anti patriarchy commentary runs the risk of demonizing men who are hurt by the same system. It's so helpful to have more examples for how to frame this for everyone's benefit! As a mother of a boy and a girl, I'm searching for tools to help them both thrive.
Agreed! Celeste, I appreciate that you are unflinching in calling out patriarchy, but also try to provide a way out of patriarchy for both women and men.
Wow. Knocked it out of the park again. I actually read the Gottman book right before I got married the second time as sort of a post-mortem on marriage #1. There is almost no advice for anyone getting married a second time. You’re not supposed to be doing that. Also, I understand that defensiveness is not helpful and that had 💯 been me. But I didn’t see what strategy would have actually worked with a partner who was critical, and eventually contemptuous and stone-walling.
I feel like some of what Gottman really misses is that nothing outweighs actual compatibility and that has nothing to do with a basis of friendship, at least it did not for me.
Standing ovation for this essay (and for Note 4 in particular).
I would add that “forgiveness” is like “communication” - something advised equally to men and women but mistaken in what it can accomplish. It can’t help a marriage when the fundamentals you describe go unaddressed.
Yes, divorce is even more loving than staying in a bad marriage - even for kids. When a friend passed me a research article on that point, my last prejudice against divorce dissolved, and I started to repair mine and my kids’ lives from the myth that a mother must devote her life to fixing a marriage for the kids’ sake. May no one fall for that rot again.
PS - One of the coauthors of the article I read about the impact of marital conflict on kids (worse than divorce) is on Substack. Dr. Jennifer Weaver recently came to the platform. She writes about motherhood at “Identity: Maternal.”
Wonderful piece. I would add a couple of hurdles. Men are actively taught NOT to take others' needs seriously, especially women and children. They are taught not to show softer feelings but to prioritize their own feelings at all costs, pretending that their needs and preferences are somehow just "logical" and "reasonable." Men and women are BOTH socialized to prioritize the man's preferences, demands, and feelings. Men are taught not to ask for help, but women are socialized to Intuit men's preferences and needs, creating a vicious circle where she is constantly catering to his needs without him even knowing she is doing so. As a result, if a woman asks for help, a man will see that as her being selfish or demanding: "Hey, * I * never ask her to do things around the house. She must do it because she likes it. And when she asks me for something she is being more demanding than I would ever be."
And on and on. The idea that marriage problems can be solved without addressing these deeply socialized dynamics is ridiculous (and I would argue, such marriage advice is, intentionally or not, designed to prop up patriarchy even more by keeping her wheels spinning).
This is all SO true- thanks for writing it all out Heather- esp this part: “a vicious cycle where she is constantly catering to his needs without him even knowing she is doing so.” SO TRUE
As a man, and a therapist working mostly with men, I couldn’t agree more with you on all of this. Thank you for putting language to this. Your work and words here are a gift!
🙌🏻! … interesting though as a women conitinioned in a conservative Christian home, I identified with both of the unhealthy feminine and masculine traits…. For example I am working on clearing the idea that I am expected to do it all and asking for help feels weak…
I love those graphics and realizing that balancing act explains so much of what’s happening behind the scenes in relationships. And how have I never heard that Terry Real quote “Maturity is when we care for our inner child rather than inflict them on our partner”? So many ah-ha moments in this piece! Love it
A kiwi from NZ, married mid90s, here; what a great read! Nearly 30 years ago I read The Dance of Anger, and Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend. Both were excellent for newly married me and far better and healthier for our marriage than any of the other dross (which I also read and then had to painfully unlearn). Unfortunately NZ has imported US-style Christianity with its purity culture and rigid gendered expectations, which has done untold harm. Love your framing with the pic of how cultural expectations "pull" at us!
I have leaned all my life toward my supposedly "masculine" side, setting boundaries and making other people annoyed and uncomfortable when I express my needs honestly. Could be why although I have been engaged twice, I have never married. The happiest couples I know at any age are those who have "thrown out the script" about what they are supposed to do to be happy with their partner. You could also have mentioned that a wedding and then marriage is a new "start line" in a relationship, not the finish line. Thanks for these insights based on your research about what is "supposed" to work in marriage.
Absolutely nailed it here. Gottman's work is in many ways helpful, but understanding the underlying patriarchal scripts we've been taught is KEY! Unlearning them might take a lifetime, but that's the work.
Holy cow! You knocked this one outta the park. Your insights on Gottman provided many AHA moments for me. Trying to use their framework only doubled down on my guilt and feeling like a total failure. Especially not helpful when your husband's cheating.
Thankfully, through therapy and my own inner work, I divorced after seeing a much larger and more healthful perspective.
This is it! Last year, as my marriage was beginning to implode with resentment and hostility bursting from the seams, we saw a counselor. Gottman was the only script, and it eventually became clear to me how superficial and ineffective this method was for us. My resentment grew to include the counselor and his generic band-aid for the bullet wound to my female humanity. I felt deeply there was something so very wrong with the approach but which I could not define. And felt shame for even questioning. Thank you for the unraveling and the validation I needed. My soul is healing.
For me too! My husband and I are working through this now - after 30 years together I just could not take it anymore (the resentment and unhappiness burst at the seams). Ensuring that he reads this essay as part of his therapy and healing.
I have heard so many times, “men want respect and women want love” but when I search my soul my deepest desire is to be respected. For my words to matter and my experiences and knowing to hold weight. So many scripts written about staying in our assigned boxes.
Another thought I had as I read your article and I thought of the way so many men feel about feminine qualities was “How can you really respect certain qualities in others that make you feel contempt when you see them in yourself?”
Great thoughts Amanda. Yes we are told that it is men who need respect but I share your deep desire for respect too.
I got married in the mid 1990s and remember thinking about his experiments in my first few years of marriage. I actually tried to make sure I was adhering to the 5:1 ratio, and trying to go beyond that. I would imagine Gottman sitting next to my husband and I at dinner and counting the positives to negatives, and deciding whether we were headed for divorce or not.
Recently, my husband was talking about how his mother used to say, "Why am I everyone's punching bag?" and my daughter responded with, "That sounds like the kind of thing mom would say." I thought, hey, that's not fair. I've never said that! I've held back from saying that for 30 years! But obviously, my resentment had come through.
I loved seeing Gottman's work reframed through a systemic patriarchal lens. Thank you!! What a great read.
Not an invisible Gottman at the dinner table tallying your positive interactions 🫣🫣🫣 😂 😂 Relatable.
Thank you! Clarity for both sexes. I feel too much anti patriarchy commentary runs the risk of demonizing men who are hurt by the same system. It's so helpful to have more examples for how to frame this for everyone's benefit! As a mother of a boy and a girl, I'm searching for tools to help them both thrive.
Agreed! Celeste, I appreciate that you are unflinching in calling out patriarchy, but also try to provide a way out of patriarchy for both women and men.
Wow. Knocked it out of the park again. I actually read the Gottman book right before I got married the second time as sort of a post-mortem on marriage #1. There is almost no advice for anyone getting married a second time. You’re not supposed to be doing that. Also, I understand that defensiveness is not helpful and that had 💯 been me. But I didn’t see what strategy would have actually worked with a partner who was critical, and eventually contemptuous and stone-walling.
I feel like some of what Gottman really misses is that nothing outweighs actual compatibility and that has nothing to do with a basis of friendship, at least it did not for me.
Standing ovation for this essay (and for Note 4 in particular).
I would add that “forgiveness” is like “communication” - something advised equally to men and women but mistaken in what it can accomplish. It can’t help a marriage when the fundamentals you describe go unaddressed.
Yes, divorce is even more loving than staying in a bad marriage - even for kids. When a friend passed me a research article on that point, my last prejudice against divorce dissolved, and I started to repair mine and my kids’ lives from the myth that a mother must devote her life to fixing a marriage for the kids’ sake. May no one fall for that rot again.
Keep singing your song of truth, Celeste.
PS - One of the coauthors of the article I read about the impact of marital conflict on kids (worse than divorce) is on Substack. Dr. Jennifer Weaver recently came to the platform. She writes about motherhood at “Identity: Maternal.”
Wonderful piece. I would add a couple of hurdles. Men are actively taught NOT to take others' needs seriously, especially women and children. They are taught not to show softer feelings but to prioritize their own feelings at all costs, pretending that their needs and preferences are somehow just "logical" and "reasonable." Men and women are BOTH socialized to prioritize the man's preferences, demands, and feelings. Men are taught not to ask for help, but women are socialized to Intuit men's preferences and needs, creating a vicious circle where she is constantly catering to his needs without him even knowing she is doing so. As a result, if a woman asks for help, a man will see that as her being selfish or demanding: "Hey, * I * never ask her to do things around the house. She must do it because she likes it. And when she asks me for something she is being more demanding than I would ever be."
And on and on. The idea that marriage problems can be solved without addressing these deeply socialized dynamics is ridiculous (and I would argue, such marriage advice is, intentionally or not, designed to prop up patriarchy even more by keeping her wheels spinning).
This is all SO true- thanks for writing it all out Heather- esp this part: “a vicious cycle where she is constantly catering to his needs without him even knowing she is doing so.” SO TRUE
Comments like this are why trump won.
Why do you think it’s ok to make sweeping negative generalisations about a sex class?
Nick instead of getting defensive I would encourage you to lean in, listen and try to see the world from a different perspective than your own.
As a man, and a therapist working mostly with men, I couldn’t agree more with you on all of this. Thank you for putting language to this. Your work and words here are a gift!
🙌🏻! … interesting though as a women conitinioned in a conservative Christian home, I identified with both of the unhealthy feminine and masculine traits…. For example I am working on clearing the idea that I am expected to do it all and asking for help feels weak…
I love those graphics and realizing that balancing act explains so much of what’s happening behind the scenes in relationships. And how have I never heard that Terry Real quote “Maturity is when we care for our inner child rather than inflict them on our partner”? So many ah-ha moments in this piece! Love it
A kiwi from NZ, married mid90s, here; what a great read! Nearly 30 years ago I read The Dance of Anger, and Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend. Both were excellent for newly married me and far better and healthier for our marriage than any of the other dross (which I also read and then had to painfully unlearn). Unfortunately NZ has imported US-style Christianity with its purity culture and rigid gendered expectations, which has done untold harm. Love your framing with the pic of how cultural expectations "pull" at us!
“Unfortunately NZ has imported US-style Christianity with its purity culture and rigid gendered expectations.”
This is nonsense.
This is well-written and very insightful.
So so good, needed this right now xx
I have leaned all my life toward my supposedly "masculine" side, setting boundaries and making other people annoyed and uncomfortable when I express my needs honestly. Could be why although I have been engaged twice, I have never married. The happiest couples I know at any age are those who have "thrown out the script" about what they are supposed to do to be happy with their partner. You could also have mentioned that a wedding and then marriage is a new "start line" in a relationship, not the finish line. Thanks for these insights based on your research about what is "supposed" to work in marriage.
Absolutely nailed it here. Gottman's work is in many ways helpful, but understanding the underlying patriarchal scripts we've been taught is KEY! Unlearning them might take a lifetime, but that's the work.
Holy cow! You knocked this one outta the park. Your insights on Gottman provided many AHA moments for me. Trying to use their framework only doubled down on my guilt and feeling like a total failure. Especially not helpful when your husband's cheating.
Thankfully, through therapy and my own inner work, I divorced after seeing a much larger and more healthful perspective.