Oh wow! This piece really packed a punch. It’s one of those life-changing ah-hah moments. I won’t look at the world the same way ever again. Your article about patriarchy in the bedroom had the same effect. Thank you for being so militant about a woman’s place. We’re told we need to seize our power but nobody ever tells you what to seize. You just did that. Thank you.
Celeste, thank you. That was simple, but clear. It rings loud!
I was an evangelical for most of my life. I raised 5 children, home schooled them and sacrificed all of myself for the family I created. Interestingly, I created that family trying to create what I missed as a child in my family of origin. In some ways I did that as I have excellent relationships with all of them as adults, but at a HUGE cost to myself. I’ve been trying to dig out of that hole for 20 years. One decade was the dark night of the soul where I questioned and wrestled with what I’d been taught about God, spirituality, how it all works. The next decade I’ve been recreating myself, finding my spiritual path and learning how to stand in my divine power. This has put a heavy strain on my marriage.
We are trained as women to be prey, to be kind, to be submissive, to doubt ourselves. In all my spiritual learning, I have struggled with that dissolving of the ego. It felt wrong because we need our ego. My Selfhood was missing. I needed to develop a Self. A divine authentic Self. It’s a lifelong journey. Thanks for naming all that with Liz.
I believe Luke 18 is the perfect illustration of this point. Jesus offers two stories, back to back--one about a woman, and one about a man. They are both about prayer--how we should approach God. The woman is praised for her tenacity, audacity, persistence, and desire for justice. She says, "Lord, grant me justice against my adversary." Jesus says that God is looking for this kind of faith. The man, in contrast, is praised for humility and denial of self, saying "Lord have mercy on me, a sinner."
These stories are presented equally in the gospel narrative, but the church repeatedly teaches the story about the man, and builds a whole spiritual practice around it, while ignoring the story about the woman. We are told to wake up every day and say, "Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner." But what if women were told to wake up every day and say "Jesus Christ, Son of God, give me justice, give me victory over my opressors"?
I work full time in mental health, but every relief society lesson I was being told “do more.” How come my 40+ hours a week of service do not count?? Oh, is it because it’s paid? Is it because I worked for specialized training? Is it because it’s not to sustain the organizational machine?? I have a sneaky suspicion, the answer is yes to all of the above. “Do more, be less.” No thank you.
I see men trying to give all their ego away, at the cost of themselves. I see my husband suffering from the shame of feeling depleted after giving everything. I see myself trying to bake myself brownies, and still feeling empty.
You mentioned the concept being overly simplistic, so I'm not being critical of this as an initial concept. And where you recoil at divided gender norms is where this needs more fleshing out: the next step is that ALL beings have need to cultivate BOTH divine feminine and masculine traits.
I finally learned to listen to myself and start a very challenging graduate program. The joy I feel in it is that I am receiving the skills I need to be my highest self, enabling me to make the best contribution to the world around me. The degraded feminine in me followed the prescriptive path I was given to do the most good. It got me nowhere. The blended connection I feel to both the divine feminine and masculine has rewritten how I navigate in both the yin and the yang.
Equally with my husband-- his prescribed way of giving up his ego has caused him pain.
May we all cultivate and trust our own deepest voice that guides us to actualizing our most balanced and divine selves.
Just as good the second time! ✨ my takeaway today is different however. Last time I read this, it was NEWS...I sat with it and it really shocked me to my core. LIKE, OH OF COURSE. This time, however, I'm ready to make this news actionable. I'm ready to actually enforce that I need help around the house. Prioritize my daily gym time and walk. Go to the spiritual gym by reading things that build me up. Here for it. Thanks again. :)
Yes, I agree soo soo much! I had the shapeless idea that the spirituality I practiced did not match what I needed fully, and probably other women as well, for quite a while. Thanks for putting it in much better words than I ever could and adding many interesting aspects to it!
Another idea I have that I cannot explain but feel is true: If women had been able to create their own religion, meditation would not equal sitting quietly and trying to dissolve the ego. It would mean involving the body, moving, dancing perhaps, in other words: Taking space.
Your point on meditation is so spot on. Traditional quiet the mind, dissolve the self meditation does NOT work for me at all, but moving meditations do. I always wondered why, if there was something wrong with me that I couldn't meditate the "normal" way.
I had no idea when I began reading this that it would explain why couples counseling was a 90% failure for me despite my diligent efforts. Yup, our counselor was a man and, yup, he was all about the Gottmans and, yup, he always made me feel I was never giving enough. To be fair, spouse didn't put in any work but until today I've felt a little confused about why some of the counselor's stuff just landed wrong. Anyway, I give 10% success for learning the 5:1 ratio which has greatly benefitted me in other relationships and I'm grateful for that.
Thank you so much for this post, which articulates and clarifies some things I've been wrestling with in my own relationship as I recently became a mother.... I realise I struggle to identify my needs, to name and embrace my desires, I find myself fawning or folding in front of my partners point of views or needs. I struggle to reconciliate letting go of my ego (spiritual work as it was presented to me) and advocating for my needs in my life.... I realise that everytime I "give up" advocating for myself i chalk it up to "not letting my ego win over" but then i cannot control the resentment so clearly I'm not holding space for my authenticity
this is really thought provoking and I wonder what spiritual works or exercise or tools I could use to build my ego...
This is my favorite article of yours; I keep coming back to read it again and again.
I want this feminine divine spirituality so badly, but the more I look, everything seems to be masculine divine. Even New Age, occult, and revived Polytheist traditions skew this way; astrology and Tarot too. So disappointing. 😞
Has anyone found a truly feminine divine spirituality? Or is this something each woman must make for herself? I long for it with deep soul yearning.
I'm so happy I found this. I've had the same thought, that these masculine divine tools were for men and women needed different ones that build us up, for years now. To read that others have come to the same conclusion, independently of each other, is so validating!!
New reader here. I'm so loving your writing. I'm curious what happened in your own marriage and/or how you were able to make those adjustments, and did you decide to stop teaching the Gottman methods? What do you recommend to look for in a marriage therapist who "gets it?" Thank you!
I am so empowered by this knowledge amongst Divine Masculine and Feminine! It makes so much sense as a woman in the physical body. I believe it depends upon the life situational que that determines whether we need to build our ego as a woman or whether we need an ego death as a man. No matter the physical body appearance, our spirit and soul’s all require breaking down the old, the negative and what no longer serves. Just as building up the new, the good, as to building up our self-esteem.
“And now I see it everywhere. I can’t unsee it. It seems so clear to me this difference between the spiritual work of men and the spiritual work of women.”
Yaaaaassssss. I believe this is the underlying issue for addiction recovery too. I know SO many more men who’ve found 12 steps to be helpful than women. But verrrrry few people I know who were violently abused as kids—especially women and especially if they’re also sexual abuse survivors—find 12 steps to be an effective tool for recovery. Not because 12 steps is bad or wrong for SO many men, but because it’s spiritually masculine roots bypass the need to heal the deeper damage done to the ego in literal physical powerlessness, thereby exacerbating the underlying trauma that fueled the addiction from the start🤯
Omg - I was raised in the church, and even have a bachelors in Biblical Studies -- yet I feel like I just found a missing piece of the puzzle! You hit the nail right on the head about why women get frustrated with organized religion (beyond the obvious patriarchal slant). Well done!
Oh wow! This piece really packed a punch. It’s one of those life-changing ah-hah moments. I won’t look at the world the same way ever again. Your article about patriarchy in the bedroom had the same effect. Thank you for being so militant about a woman’s place. We’re told we need to seize our power but nobody ever tells you what to seize. You just did that. Thank you.
haha my thoughts exactly! SO GOOD!
Celeste, thank you. That was simple, but clear. It rings loud!
I was an evangelical for most of my life. I raised 5 children, home schooled them and sacrificed all of myself for the family I created. Interestingly, I created that family trying to create what I missed as a child in my family of origin. In some ways I did that as I have excellent relationships with all of them as adults, but at a HUGE cost to myself. I’ve been trying to dig out of that hole for 20 years. One decade was the dark night of the soul where I questioned and wrestled with what I’d been taught about God, spirituality, how it all works. The next decade I’ve been recreating myself, finding my spiritual path and learning how to stand in my divine power. This has put a heavy strain on my marriage.
We are trained as women to be prey, to be kind, to be submissive, to doubt ourselves. In all my spiritual learning, I have struggled with that dissolving of the ego. It felt wrong because we need our ego. My Selfhood was missing. I needed to develop a Self. A divine authentic Self. It’s a lifelong journey. Thanks for naming all that with Liz.
I believe Luke 18 is the perfect illustration of this point. Jesus offers two stories, back to back--one about a woman, and one about a man. They are both about prayer--how we should approach God. The woman is praised for her tenacity, audacity, persistence, and desire for justice. She says, "Lord, grant me justice against my adversary." Jesus says that God is looking for this kind of faith. The man, in contrast, is praised for humility and denial of self, saying "Lord have mercy on me, a sinner."
These stories are presented equally in the gospel narrative, but the church repeatedly teaches the story about the man, and builds a whole spiritual practice around it, while ignoring the story about the woman. We are told to wake up every day and say, "Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner." But what if women were told to wake up every day and say "Jesus Christ, Son of God, give me justice, give me victory over my opressors"?
Oh wow! Excellent pull!! Thanks so much for sharing it - it’s perfect
I work full time in mental health, but every relief society lesson I was being told “do more.” How come my 40+ hours a week of service do not count?? Oh, is it because it’s paid? Is it because I worked for specialized training? Is it because it’s not to sustain the organizational machine?? I have a sneaky suspicion, the answer is yes to all of the above. “Do more, be less.” No thank you.
Yes, and.
I see men trying to give all their ego away, at the cost of themselves. I see my husband suffering from the shame of feeling depleted after giving everything. I see myself trying to bake myself brownies, and still feeling empty.
You mentioned the concept being overly simplistic, so I'm not being critical of this as an initial concept. And where you recoil at divided gender norms is where this needs more fleshing out: the next step is that ALL beings have need to cultivate BOTH divine feminine and masculine traits.
I finally learned to listen to myself and start a very challenging graduate program. The joy I feel in it is that I am receiving the skills I need to be my highest self, enabling me to make the best contribution to the world around me. The degraded feminine in me followed the prescriptive path I was given to do the most good. It got me nowhere. The blended connection I feel to both the divine feminine and masculine has rewritten how I navigate in both the yin and the yang.
Equally with my husband-- his prescribed way of giving up his ego has caused him pain.
May we all cultivate and trust our own deepest voice that guides us to actualizing our most balanced and divine selves.
Just as good the second time! ✨ my takeaway today is different however. Last time I read this, it was NEWS...I sat with it and it really shocked me to my core. LIKE, OH OF COURSE. This time, however, I'm ready to make this news actionable. I'm ready to actually enforce that I need help around the house. Prioritize my daily gym time and walk. Go to the spiritual gym by reading things that build me up. Here for it. Thanks again. :)
Oh and I ordered supreme pizza for myself tonight 🥰
Yes, I agree soo soo much! I had the shapeless idea that the spirituality I practiced did not match what I needed fully, and probably other women as well, for quite a while. Thanks for putting it in much better words than I ever could and adding many interesting aspects to it!
Another idea I have that I cannot explain but feel is true: If women had been able to create their own religion, meditation would not equal sitting quietly and trying to dissolve the ego. It would mean involving the body, moving, dancing perhaps, in other words: Taking space.
!!!
Your point on meditation is so spot on. Traditional quiet the mind, dissolve the self meditation does NOT work for me at all, but moving meditations do. I always wondered why, if there was something wrong with me that I couldn't meditate the "normal" way.
Thanks for pointing this out!
I had no idea when I began reading this that it would explain why couples counseling was a 90% failure for me despite my diligent efforts. Yup, our counselor was a man and, yup, he was all about the Gottmans and, yup, he always made me feel I was never giving enough. To be fair, spouse didn't put in any work but until today I've felt a little confused about why some of the counselor's stuff just landed wrong. Anyway, I give 10% success for learning the 5:1 ratio which has greatly benefitted me in other relationships and I'm grateful for that.
Thank you so much for this post, which articulates and clarifies some things I've been wrestling with in my own relationship as I recently became a mother.... I realise I struggle to identify my needs, to name and embrace my desires, I find myself fawning or folding in front of my partners point of views or needs. I struggle to reconciliate letting go of my ego (spiritual work as it was presented to me) and advocating for my needs in my life.... I realise that everytime I "give up" advocating for myself i chalk it up to "not letting my ego win over" but then i cannot control the resentment so clearly I'm not holding space for my authenticity
this is really thought provoking and I wonder what spiritual works or exercise or tools I could use to build my ego...
Spiritual exercise: ask yourself what you really want and then honor that ❤️❤️❤️. Repeat everyday.
This is my favorite article of yours; I keep coming back to read it again and again.
I want this feminine divine spirituality so badly, but the more I look, everything seems to be masculine divine. Even New Age, occult, and revived Polytheist traditions skew this way; astrology and Tarot too. So disappointing. 😞
Has anyone found a truly feminine divine spirituality? Or is this something each woman must make for herself? I long for it with deep soul yearning.
I'm so happy I found this. I've had the same thought, that these masculine divine tools were for men and women needed different ones that build us up, for years now. To read that others have come to the same conclusion, independently of each other, is so validating!!
New reader here. I'm so loving your writing. I'm curious what happened in your own marriage and/or how you were able to make those adjustments, and did you decide to stop teaching the Gottman methods? What do you recommend to look for in a marriage therapist who "gets it?" Thank you!
Many years ago I complained about AA meetings. - I need to get an ego not get rid of one. -
And still over the years as I’ve learned to care for myself I am humbled by the needs of others.
Thank you for writing.
I am so empowered by this knowledge amongst Divine Masculine and Feminine! It makes so much sense as a woman in the physical body. I believe it depends upon the life situational que that determines whether we need to build our ego as a woman or whether we need an ego death as a man. No matter the physical body appearance, our spirit and soul’s all require breaking down the old, the negative and what no longer serves. Just as building up the new, the good, as to building up our self-esteem.
“And now I see it everywhere. I can’t unsee it. It seems so clear to me this difference between the spiritual work of men and the spiritual work of women.”
Yaaaaassssss. I believe this is the underlying issue for addiction recovery too. I know SO many more men who’ve found 12 steps to be helpful than women. But verrrrry few people I know who were violently abused as kids—especially women and especially if they’re also sexual abuse survivors—find 12 steps to be an effective tool for recovery. Not because 12 steps is bad or wrong for SO many men, but because it’s spiritually masculine roots bypass the need to heal the deeper damage done to the ego in literal physical powerlessness, thereby exacerbating the underlying trauma that fueled the addiction from the start🤯
Omg - I was raised in the church, and even have a bachelors in Biblical Studies -- yet I feel like I just found a missing piece of the puzzle! You hit the nail right on the head about why women get frustrated with organized religion (beyond the obvious patriarchal slant). Well done!