I would add, not only do they not ask b/c they would not believe women anyway, but they don't ask b/c they truly do not want to hear what women, at least some, would say. The truth would ruin the fantasies that allow them to decide for us, a priori. Which is to say that they don't want to know that we want the same freedom & respect that men have & the same power to make our own decisions. We are not "other" nor are we lesser.
Yes! Big part of the problem is that they just plainly disagree with women’s wants, as those wants typically don’t directly serve men. So they decide and make up stories or act confused about what women want. And that’s all part of the hierarchical authoritarian mindset. A good further read is if anyone google’s “missing reasons estranged mothers”. A blogger writes very astute analysis of a forum for narcissistic mothers whose adult children have gone little or no contact. The biggest theme is that they say they don’t understand why their child became estranged, yet upon questioning and examination, it’s usually revealed that the child did indeed give plenty of explanation. But to the authoritarian mother, because they disagree with those reasons, those reasons are invalid, and therefore don’t explain anything to them. They are so completely unable to comprehend their child having different wants and needs from their own that their child’s words actions are a mystery to them.
Agree. I am one of those children &, although I have not had any interaction w/ my mother for 30 years, I am sure she finds it a complete mystery &, of course, all my fault. She did the best she could! [if so, that's pretty sad in itself.]
It is more relational to ask people what they want such as Celeste example of being a part of a hierarchy who “decided “ why people left the church. Being born into a patriarchal system , all of us - at times - may have been a party to that kind of behavior.
I see this pattern in relationships and divorce. Men don’t believe what women want and need in their marriages and then when women want a divorce they call her crazy and say they were blindsided. Men are conditioned to not listen to or believe women.
Yes, they’d rather be in charge /control rather than relational b/c frankly they don’t know how. But I guess they call that ❤️? If someone obeys them as a “superior “ being? 🤮
A lot of women are just silly flibbertigibets led astray by social media though. Men are generally busy doing important things and cannot be expected to monitor their wives' Internet use.
You know who else rewarded woman with a medal for having more than 3 kids? The nazis did. There were even a bronze, silver and gold „bunny“ medal - gold for eight and more true German offsprings… The parallels are getting more and more uncanny.
These are strong and compelling words and pictures. It is so easy to be blind to the truth when we accept the way things are without question. Women are strong and fully human no matter what choices we make. We can be who we are without asking permission or seeking approval.
Isn't it ironic that presumably the economy and the center of capitalism is based on how many people there are to consume goods and services, and the people that have the power to have those children are women? If you haven't seen the YouTube video of 20 trump supporters versus one journalist by Jubilee, it is a good one. The Trump supporters continue to fight back with the theory that bringing back the traditional family and making non-traditional family values illegal will fix America. Fix poverty, suicide, violence, etc. They consistently reference the 40s and 50s. While there was so much wrong with that time period before the civil rights movement, I would argue that one of the factors that it made it so idyllic was the highest tax bracket was 90%. Wealth re-distribution for the highest earning Americans was working to fill the gap of externalities their earnings had on the system. Then came along Reagan and taxes have never been the same. The wealthy white men want to give up nothing for the "environment" they want to own. My Mother's Day wish is it doesn't work out that way. That the rich white men are forced to concede. This newsletter is a part of that protest. Thank you Celeste!
The Trump administration wants WHITE WOMEN to have more babies. I think it's important to put it into the context of eugenics, because that's what the plan is about. ICE is kidnapping Black and brown people, separating mothers from babies, deporting people who are here legally including children who were born here and are US citizens. This is straight out of the Nazi playbook which, unironically, was inspired by the forced sterilization projects of people with disabilities from 1907 - up through the 1960s.
Thank you, a very important point. It is essential to understand what this administration is doing from that lens. This is not a baby boom pro-natalist movement, it is a eugenics movement. Look at the autistic database they are building. The constant discussions regarding "disabled and fat people are an aberration and carriers of disease". Dr. Oz literally said that being unhealthy is unpatriotic. It is a scary time for many of us because we see where this is headed.
Thank you - great article! Iceland had a great strategy for advancing women’s rights. Nothing substantive will change in America unless women stop attacking other women for not fitting the “ideal” that men want. If women change, men will change overnight. The reverse will not happen as long as women undermine other women. We have more power than we think we do, and we give it away by complicity with men’s expectations. When I bring this up with some women friends, they go ballistic on me and start reciting the ways they’ve been victimized by men. This reaction of self-absorbed victimhood is not helpful to advancing women’s rights. Women need to support each other’s advancement with political strategy while responding compassionately to individual women’s suffering. The latter must not cancel nor postpone the former.
Loved this! I wrote recently about living as a woman in a patriarchal zoo and boy there just continues to be so many examples of how we are treated like animals! Men throwing us a bone (or a cheap medal) here and there and expecting us to feel whole and bend to their will in an environment completely curated by them. Is it really that hard to ask us and make us a part of the conversation?
Giving birth at a hospital costs $20k+. Let’s start the bidding there with $10k per year per child for healthcare, clothing and food. And let’s add free daycare if she works and/or gets divorced and is forced to join the workforce.
For the last several years, every time I'm asked what I want for my birthday, Christmas, Mother's Day, I answer, "someone else to do the dishes, laundry, & fix dinner." It has yet to happen, but they keep asking.
Two thoughts: 1. ask them to do it for a period of time. Long enough for them to understand the work involved; short enough that they'll go for it. 2. my mom went on "strike" when I was too little to understand what that meant. As the youngest of 4 kids spread across 6 1/2 years, I don't know if my sibliings had to do more (I don't think I did), but I'm pretty sure my Dad stepped up in some ways (some laundry stuff and possibly some grocery shopping).
I recently saw a man ask in a reddit group why women aren't attracted to him when he's "jacked." He said he only gets attention from hetero and gay men when he's jacked and only gets attention from women when he hasn't been working out and just has a regular body, which had him totally puzzled about what women are or aren't attracted to. To get his answer...he ofc asked MEN in a group where ppl ask MEN questions/for advice!
They go to other men for advice about what women want and care about bc they want to be told what they want to hear, but still act shocked they're not getting what they want from women.
Thanks Celeste, I learn so much and gain a lot to think about from your writing. Cheers! (And for the record, I am a woman who genuinely prefers my husband’s softer bod, than when he had a visible six pack and all the leanness, it physically feels better to me and I am more attracted to the look as well)
"Men, older adults, Republicans and Americans with high incomes were most likely to say fewer children would negatively impact the U.S.”
Of course 2 out of the 4 groups who want more babies born are people who can't have babies, bc they're men or too old to get pregnant. How convenient for them!
An uncomfortable read for this white male, but a necessary one. Thanks!
Thank you, J P! Men like you are one reason I love Substack so much!
I would add, not only do they not ask b/c they would not believe women anyway, but they don't ask b/c they truly do not want to hear what women, at least some, would say. The truth would ruin the fantasies that allow them to decide for us, a priori. Which is to say that they don't want to know that we want the same freedom & respect that men have & the same power to make our own decisions. We are not "other" nor are we lesser.
Yes! Big part of the problem is that they just plainly disagree with women’s wants, as those wants typically don’t directly serve men. So they decide and make up stories or act confused about what women want. And that’s all part of the hierarchical authoritarian mindset. A good further read is if anyone google’s “missing reasons estranged mothers”. A blogger writes very astute analysis of a forum for narcissistic mothers whose adult children have gone little or no contact. The biggest theme is that they say they don’t understand why their child became estranged, yet upon questioning and examination, it’s usually revealed that the child did indeed give plenty of explanation. But to the authoritarian mother, because they disagree with those reasons, those reasons are invalid, and therefore don’t explain anything to them. They are so completely unable to comprehend their child having different wants and needs from their own that their child’s words actions are a mystery to them.
Agree. I am one of those children &, although I have not had any interaction w/ my mother for 30 years, I am sure she finds it a complete mystery &, of course, all my fault. She did the best she could! [if so, that's pretty sad in itself.]
It is more relational to ask people what they want such as Celeste example of being a part of a hierarchy who “decided “ why people left the church. Being born into a patriarchal system , all of us - at times - may have been a party to that kind of behavior.
Best article to start Mother's Day with ever, Celeste🔥
I see this pattern in relationships and divorce. Men don’t believe what women want and need in their marriages and then when women want a divorce they call her crazy and say they were blindsided. Men are conditioned to not listen to or believe women.
Yes, they’d rather be in charge /control rather than relational b/c frankly they don’t know how. But I guess they call that ❤️? If someone obeys them as a “superior “ being? 🤮
A lot of women are just silly flibbertigibets led astray by social media though. Men are generally busy doing important things and cannot be expected to monitor their wives' Internet use.
You know who else rewarded woman with a medal for having more than 3 kids? The nazis did. There were even a bronze, silver and gold „bunny“ medal - gold for eight and more true German offsprings… The parallels are getting more and more uncanny.
Ugh!😩
Idd, first thing I had to think of when reading the start of the article. Nazis btw were also a big fan of Motherday, making it quite a big thing
This is excellent and I'm so glad you included those bro photos.
These are strong and compelling words and pictures. It is so easy to be blind to the truth when we accept the way things are without question. Women are strong and fully human no matter what choices we make. We can be who we are without asking permission or seeking approval.
Isn't it ironic that presumably the economy and the center of capitalism is based on how many people there are to consume goods and services, and the people that have the power to have those children are women? If you haven't seen the YouTube video of 20 trump supporters versus one journalist by Jubilee, it is a good one. The Trump supporters continue to fight back with the theory that bringing back the traditional family and making non-traditional family values illegal will fix America. Fix poverty, suicide, violence, etc. They consistently reference the 40s and 50s. While there was so much wrong with that time period before the civil rights movement, I would argue that one of the factors that it made it so idyllic was the highest tax bracket was 90%. Wealth re-distribution for the highest earning Americans was working to fill the gap of externalities their earnings had on the system. Then came along Reagan and taxes have never been the same. The wealthy white men want to give up nothing for the "environment" they want to own. My Mother's Day wish is it doesn't work out that way. That the rich white men are forced to concede. This newsletter is a part of that protest. Thank you Celeste!
EXACTLY!!!👍
The Trump administration wants WHITE WOMEN to have more babies. I think it's important to put it into the context of eugenics, because that's what the plan is about. ICE is kidnapping Black and brown people, separating mothers from babies, deporting people who are here legally including children who were born here and are US citizens. This is straight out of the Nazi playbook which, unironically, was inspired by the forced sterilization projects of people with disabilities from 1907 - up through the 1960s.
Thank you, a very important point. It is essential to understand what this administration is doing from that lens. This is not a baby boom pro-natalist movement, it is a eugenics movement. Look at the autistic database they are building. The constant discussions regarding "disabled and fat people are an aberration and carriers of disease". Dr. Oz literally said that being unhealthy is unpatriotic. It is a scary time for many of us because we see where this is headed.
Thank you - great article! Iceland had a great strategy for advancing women’s rights. Nothing substantive will change in America unless women stop attacking other women for not fitting the “ideal” that men want. If women change, men will change overnight. The reverse will not happen as long as women undermine other women. We have more power than we think we do, and we give it away by complicity with men’s expectations. When I bring this up with some women friends, they go ballistic on me and start reciting the ways they’ve been victimized by men. This reaction of self-absorbed victimhood is not helpful to advancing women’s rights. Women need to support each other’s advancement with political strategy while responding compassionately to individual women’s suffering. The latter must not cancel nor postpone the former.
Thank you again for your insights.
Loved this! I wrote recently about living as a woman in a patriarchal zoo and boy there just continues to be so many examples of how we are treated like animals! Men throwing us a bone (or a cheap medal) here and there and expecting us to feel whole and bend to their will in an environment completely curated by them. Is it really that hard to ask us and make us a part of the conversation?
Giving birth at a hospital costs $20k+. Let’s start the bidding there with $10k per year per child for healthcare, clothing and food. And let’s add free daycare if she works and/or gets divorced and is forced to join the workforce.
For the last several years, every time I'm asked what I want for my birthday, Christmas, Mother's Day, I answer, "someone else to do the dishes, laundry, & fix dinner." It has yet to happen, but they keep asking.
Two thoughts: 1. ask them to do it for a period of time. Long enough for them to understand the work involved; short enough that they'll go for it. 2. my mom went on "strike" when I was too little to understand what that meant. As the youngest of 4 kids spread across 6 1/2 years, I don't know if my sibliings had to do more (I don't think I did), but I'm pretty sure my Dad stepped up in some ways (some laundry stuff and possibly some grocery shopping).
I recently saw a man ask in a reddit group why women aren't attracted to him when he's "jacked." He said he only gets attention from hetero and gay men when he's jacked and only gets attention from women when he hasn't been working out and just has a regular body, which had him totally puzzled about what women are or aren't attracted to. To get his answer...he ofc asked MEN in a group where ppl ask MEN questions/for advice!
They go to other men for advice about what women want and care about bc they want to be told what they want to hear, but still act shocked they're not getting what they want from women.
Thanks Celeste, I learn so much and gain a lot to think about from your writing. Cheers! (And for the record, I am a woman who genuinely prefers my husband’s softer bod, than when he had a visible six pack and all the leanness, it physically feels better to me and I am more attracted to the look as well)
"Men, older adults, Republicans and Americans with high incomes were most likely to say fewer children would negatively impact the U.S.”
Of course 2 out of the 4 groups who want more babies born are people who can't have babies, bc they're men or too old to get pregnant. How convenient for them!